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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago

Misner said it was a difficult decision to vote for Trump. He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders.

Vindication feels awful here, honestly.

“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.

  1. Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn't.

  2. If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is "Well, you're not seperated enough, stylistically", you're not much more than a fascist enabler.

  3. In what fucking way is "Not fascism" not a better vision than "Literal fucking fascism"?

“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)

Ah, it's just like being on Lemmy!

“Even in politics, humanity should be the first and the foremost thing to to be respected, to be valued, right? And [the] Democratic Party clearly, clearly, for an entire year showed us they do not care about human life,” Khan said. “They do not care about their constituents, how they feel about the massacre.”

Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.

[-] capt_wolf@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Their idiocy knows no bounds.

"To punish the democrats for supporting Israel..."

Which Trump has approved of for years and provided the same support. They named a settlement Trump Heights in occupied territory to honor him for God's sake!

The rest....

I'm so sick of people not doing their own research. The complete failure even just to member as far back as 4 years. That and the single minded focus of these morons. The sheer ignorance of people and the pig headed stubbornness to actually change their mindset when presented with irrefutable fact. All of that is what's truly killing our country.

[-] AmidFuror@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," his campaign said in a statement.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 2 weeks ago

Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn't.

At least in this case it definitely didn't.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago
[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 0 points 2 weeks ago

Trump employed both negative and positive messaging, and that's why he won. Trump was saying "the dems will destroy America but I will make America great again", meanwhile Harris was saying "Trump will destroy America, but I will... Not do much". You can probably imagine why one was more effective.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

Most people didn't believe the fascism stuff. Democrats have used that in literally every election in my lifetime. They got played by being the little boy who calls wolf.

Then Harris told the working class that nothing would change and Trump promised lower grocery prices. It doesn't matter that he was lying his ass off. Most people are not politically engaged enough to know there was zero chance of him keeping that promise.

And unfortunately this isn't an election where only the politically educated get to vote. All of those points are bangers in your local university bar with political science students and professors. But all the common person sees is the guy who was president the last time they could afford stuff saying he'll bring that back.

So yeah, Harris needed to actually do some campaigning, not just fear monger.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Is it the dems fault for calling reps what they are (and, news flash, have been for a long time)? Or is it your fault for allowing the reps to normalize fascism in your mind to the point it’s no longer a valid point?

For the record she did a fuck ton of campaigning and spent more time speaking with actual voters than the media and whatnot, she laid out detailed plans but no, it was because she spoke reality that Donny is a bad man and wants to do bad things. Was she not supposed to say anything about him at all? Not allowed to speak on the greatest threat to American democracy ever?

You the voter hold responsibility here as well. Oh but you got bored of being scared of fascism and now full-on fascism is here.

[-] Nunar@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

This is amazing. Kamala didn't do enough so we are going with the guy who has literally said he will fuck up everything we stand for.

[-] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

I actually think this is a very important lesson for Democrats: if you expect voters to vote rationally, you will lose. You can't win by trying to appeal to people's intellect and reason, you have to try and appeal to emotions and passions. If that sounds potentially dangerous, that's because it is, but unless they're willing to abandon democracy, I don't see any other option.

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter, but watching her give speeches I knew she was doomed when I realized that she was trying really hard to get people to think things. Every single one of her policies was fantastic, but her delivery was more about thoughts than feelings, and I'm convinced that little distinction of stagecraft, more than anything else, is what sunk her campaign.

It's the same thing with Biden trying, legitimately trying I believe, to provide student loan relief and getting cock blocked by the Supreme Court, but then just asking people to think about the hard work he'd done, rather than picking a loud emotional fight on behalf of the students who'd just got the rug pulled out from under their feet.

You can apply this same lesson to a lot of Democratic messaging failures lately. Getting people to feel things is always going to win over getting them to think things.

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago

Who could have guessed that "I'm 100% aligned with the guy who is helping to kill your extended family, but the other guy is probably worse" would result in a negative emotional response.

[-] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Who could have guessed

Not the Democrats, apparently.

Although, to be fair to the Democrats, it is difficult, if not impossible, to appeal to every potential voter's emotions, especially in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's essentially impossible to try and appeal to the emotions of those sympathetic to Palestine without upsetting voters who are sympathetic to Israel, and vice versa.

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, there's no perfect "everyone loves me" choice for any issue. I do think the salience of the issue was probably different between Muslims and Jews though. "Not giving Israel more free bombs in their time of need" when they're already dominating the battlefield is a different level of criticality than "is callously killing my family". Plus, many Jews were also passionately against the genocide. It wasn't simply a matter of adding up all the Jewish voters and Muslim voters and going with whichever number was bigger.

There was some path that minimized the number of voters so turned off by the choice that they'd abandon the Democrats, and I'm confident where they landed was no where close to that. I'm also confident that getting that one issue right would not have turned the tide and made Harris win, it's just one of many she failed to handle by charting the path that was "I'm Biden, but reliably able to form sentences".

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[-] fubo@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

What do they have to worry about? Their guy won!

[-] JustAnIdiotPlsIgnore@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Look I get it, the Dems didn't do enough to win over their base and instead went to the center.

But these Dearborn folks in the article get what they deserve and should really shut the fuck up. They voted for a man who said he would extend his Muslim country travel ban to gaza and still thought somehow he was on their side.

You are a complete a total dumbass if you thought he was on your side. He has years and years of lying out of his ass and you believed him and it's the Democrats fault? No I reject that. He literally stated in 2023 that he would extend his travel ban to Gaza. I feel like I need to take crazy pills or something, these people are insufferable.

[-] bravesilvernest@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

The article states that some of them just wanted a candidate to acknowledge them, which trump did. Regardless of how he's actually going to implement policies, he did a bare minimum for them, which reflects in the results.

No other real editorializing needed, unfortunately.

[-] JustAnIdiotPlsIgnore@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

How completely pathetic some people can be. I don't understand.

"He had a rally in my town and told me what I wanted to hear, it's no wonder I voted for him" just makes me laugh.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You are a complete a total dumbass if you thought he was on your side.

No one in the dem party thinks trump was on their side in any way. But they also thought Biden/Harris was a rabid dog that it was important for the parties future to put down (rhetorically). Nobody owes fascism or fascism-lite a vote, and I demand better from dems if they want to continue to exist as a party at all. Centrist leaders are not kings who get to make choices like aiding terrorism and murder, and then walk away without accountability.

Not only was no one in the centrist camp doing anything for the peace vote (the anti genocide side), by shipping weapons the centrists were actively and violently acting against the human rights side and the law. Did you think you were siding with neutrality? The DNC has not been neutral in this at all. They are abetting genocide and terrorism, and violating numerous US laws and the geneva convention.

Besides the muslim vote, the youth and progressive votes were heavily influenced by this issue, and their votes were right there for the taking. The Republicans were always going to be violent and corrupt, but people had higher expectations for Dems, so Dems taking those AIPAC bribes had consequences. This seems obvious to so many but you just refuse to see that you're siding with the baddies, not some sort of neutral crowd you could make better someday.

And do you somehow feel powerful calling people dumbasses? Its against the TOS here and you lost along with the rest of us. Its pathetic that even in utter failure you are all mouth and contrived nonsense that your side has clean hands and was trying to do the right thing.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It’s hilarious how you talk about how simple and easy it all is when you quite clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Everything you listed, the Republicans are guilty of by a far larger margin. The difference is that dems were talking about two state solutions while Trump quite literally was telling Bibi to turn Gaza into a goddamn parking lot. (And that’s just the most obvious clue you’re saying nothing of value lol)

I especially enjoyed you attempting to mount your high horse after this piss-poor attack by mentioning the break in TOS when the OP is talking in general and is not attacking a single person. It’s okay to say “people who think x, or do y are dumb”.

If anything, you’re the one breaking TOS:

  • Do not engage in name callingad hominem attacks, or any other uncivil behaviour. Criticize ideas, never people.

You using the threat of TOS can be seen as ad hominem as a way to delegitimize the comment you replied to.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Everything you listed, the Republicans are guilty of by a far larger margin.

Thats utterly meaningless.

Elaborate please.

This article was about deerborn residents who are Muslim, justifying voting for trump. So these people voted for the party who did things way worse than Democrats and that's utterly meaningless? Can't wait to hear the response.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Elaborate please.

The vote-for-Biden-because-he-is slightly-better-than-trump-crowd forgot that voters have a third choice-- disengagement and apathy. Which is what happened isnt it. Reduced turnout from almost every single demographic.

Now the Dem brand is trashed, along with the western world order, the brand of democracy itself, and the brand of the united states. All so some incompetent idiots at the DNC could take some filthy AIPAC bribes to enable a far right wing religious genocide and other obvious war crimes.

Previous generations of dems understood that you dont win a campaign by just saying you are a centrist and stopping there. You at least pretend to be progressive during the camapign, because thats what the voters want. You need some carrot. All stick + cult of personality doesnt work. Its not exactly complicated. Canibalizing your base to reach for the mythical middle in republican territory has never turned out votes either. But the loss of the base is a sunk cost when you choose to roll that particular dice. We saw that play out as Harris lost support on a daily basis for the month leading up the election.

Thats not even taking into account that its just plain wrong, and causes people to lose trust in the Dem party. In the case of youth that trust might be permanently lost.

You have not addressed the points that were asked. All you did was a faux putin-esqe history lesson about the history of the Dems and what they did. I want to know why voting for a Republican is better than voting the the democrat. All you did was basically go on a separate rant about a separate issue.

Please try again and actually answer what is being asked.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I dont think you read or understood what I wrote.

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[-] insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe 4 points 2 weeks ago

You of all people posting this without comment. The only thing funnier (and sadder) is "cautious optimism about Trump".

[-] belastend@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 weeks ago

Now please remember both sides bad and its akshually a uniparty, so all voters are innocent uwu

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

I kept saying since last year Biden was throwing away his campaign but noooooooo, its the voters who are wrong.

[-] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Yeah people still don't get it. It's sad.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Wahhh, they didn't cater directly to me for literally no reason as I'm not part of any significant voting bloc. Why would they personally attack me like that?

Anything to absolve yourself of the consequences for your stupid decision, right? Pathetic.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

If they're too insignificant to listen to, they're too insignificant to blame.

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

calls themselves core voters

don't vote

[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 0 points 2 weeks ago

“President Trump, he continuously came and he was in the community. While I don’t believe that he’s going to enact policies that will benefit the community, he at least showed that he was willing to show up for the community,” Misner said.

Not only will his policies not benefit the Arab-American communities in the US, they will end up actively harming them, as well as any chance of Palestinians even having a tiny slice of their own in the Middle East.

Congrats, Misner, you played yourself.

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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
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