353
submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by isaaclyman@lemmy.world to c/adhd@lemmy.world

Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)

ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.

(page 3) 33 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com 1 points 3 months ago

I had a friend like that. They weren't always assholes, and we used to be good friends for over 10 years. But, they become an asshole eventually. I had to cut them off no-contact entirely because it was just unbelievable how disrespectful they became. Interestingly, the were blaringly neurodivergent, but denied it. I still can't tell if they really thought they were a normie or they were passing as a normie and making excuses or outright denying their "quirks". Either way, fuck them.

[-] stevedice@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago

I'm pretty sure it is a symptom of BPD.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

A business is not obligated to tear out every stairway to make a ramp because some of its users require a wheel chair. In the same vein, not every social interaction where a person who is neurodivergent (diagnosed or not) hurts the feelings of another person is necessarily them being an asshole. Another commenter said something about how intent matters. They're right. It does.

However it matters for both parties. It's situational and it's important to remember that a lot of social interactions involve misunderstandings because there is a lack of communication from both sides and a set of different expectations on both sides.

I don't necessarily think it's fair to view every social interaction through the light of who is the injured party. We don't do that to people with physical conditions. You wouldn't accuse a person in a wheel chair of being an asshole for having an expectation of accessibility. But that's because society as a whole has come to an understanding (by force) that accessibility for these physical conditions is important.

I don't think society has come to that realization about ND people, nor do I think that the average person looks at ND behaviors and adapts to them in a meaningful way.

So when people have an expectation based on Neurotypical behavior and a ND person doesn't meet that expectation, do they recalibrate at all to temper the expectations?

One of the commenters here gave an example about working with a ND person and the response the rest of their co-workers had to another person calling them out for it in a fit of anger. The thing is, it should not have gotten to that point. And it's not just because others should have been setting good boundaries in a healthy way about that behavior. It's also because they should have been tempering their expectations and not overcompensating for that ND person in an unhealthy way.

Part of the problems we're seeing between NT's and ND's have a lot to do with communication and an inability to compromise or at the very least try to find resolution in healthy ways.

[-] ThotIWasSomebody@lemmy.world -2 points 4 months ago

Neurodivergent people: Trying their best to fit into society

You: Fuck those assholes.

As someone who is neurodivergent and operates at an engineering level, when I'm under pressure I can sometimes be an asshole unintentionally. I try my best to recognize when I do this and apologize when I can. It's not something I can help. It's impulsive which means it's hard to control.

Here you are telling everyone that I am not deserving of compassion or understanding and should be written off as an asshole.

Do you know what it's like being neurodivergent? How people treat you when they find out? I now have to be on my best behavior at all times or I could get labeled an asshole and therefore deserve nothing according to you.

Sometimes mental illness is like having a stab wound in your gut and you have to act like everything is fine. It's not always possible in all situations.

To say this post lacks awareness is an understatement.

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 months ago

Neurodivergence is not metal illness. You can not "cure" what is not broken. Trying to do so is what causes serious childhood trama. Neurodivergence is tied to communication differences and a differences in how the brain works.

For more information look up the double empathy problem.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

I think a lot of people here found it a bit caustic. But I don't necessarily disagree with the point I think you might have been trying to make.

There's a line that's pretty easy to draw involving intent and behavior. However the actuality is the world isn't made for us and this is as much an accessibility issue as it is anything else.

This is pretty clearly demonstrated in the show House. There's at least one episode where House is in a wheel chair and he illustrates how he can use that wheel chair to get away with a lot of intentional behavior masked as accidental or otherwise unintentional. At one point I believe he even makes it clear it was intention and able bodied people give him a pass because "you wouldn't hit a guy in a wheel chair".

When people think each incident is unintentional they are more likely to be willing to compromise their irritation or boundaries. When they feel the incidents are intentional they feel righteously angry and are less likely to fall back on social norms. However they still generally default (for people with physical disabilities) to compromising their boundaries in order to be socially accepted or not look like the bad guy. This is part of the problem with the whole thing.

This is part of the problem with this discussion. The main assumption here is that each party is operating on the social norms laid down by NT people and nobody in the thread seems to be readily able to agree on what specific behaviors make you an "asshole" because it's subjective and ND do not generally have the same reference baseline for what is acceptable.

This is not making excuses. It's laying out facts.

There's a lot of anecdotes here in this comment thread. There's a lot of personal experience that is valid but does not necessarily equal the experiences of even a marginally reasonable subset of the population to make an analysis of what constitutes an "asshole", or what behaviors specifically are NT or ND.

But it seems we can mostly agree that deliberately using the condition of being neurodivergent as a shield for behavior we know is not acceptable is wrong.

The scale by which we measure that isn't decided by ND people though. It's decided by a society of mostly NT people. And because society by and large doesn't even necessarily acknowledge those differences and make boundaries based on facts and education rather than feelings we end up with this hodgepodge of badly enforced boundaries, unhealthy masking that does real damage, and under/overreaction.

But people still deserve empathy. That empathy doesn't mean you should abandon or alter your boundaries to accept unacceptable behavior.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›
this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2025
353 points (96.3% liked)

ADHD

10984 readers
11 users here now

A casual community for people with ADHD

Values:

Acceptance, Openness, Understanding, Equality, Reciprocity.

Rules:

Encouraged:

Relevant Lemmy communities:

Autism

ADHD Memes

Bipolar Disorder

Therapy

Mental Health

Neurodivergent Life Hacks

lemmy.world/c/adhd will happily promote other ND communities as long as said communities demonstrate that they share our values.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS