cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/23485321
Centrists are right-wingers pretending to care about leftist opinions
The left will feed a thousand people, in fear that one may starve. The right will starve a thousand people, in fear that one is undeserving.
Or brown.
“Undeserving” covers that, unfortunately.
Ugh…
Yes, kind of. Problem is that from the right-wing pov “undeserving” is a euphemism, almost a dog-whistle for “brown” or in reality closer to “low on their made-up hierarchy”
Right-wing POV: Why are they undeserving? Because they’re not white. Why do we feel that non-whites are undeserving? Racism. Why do we care about who deserves what? Hierarchy/“god’s plan” which put us on top and them on the bottom.
You start out in 1954 by saying, “removed, removed, removed.” By 1968 you can’t say “removed”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “removed, removed.”
I myself become a hard core social liberal, but can get along with social democrats, classic liberals and conservatives, other than that steer clear
Bless.
The extreme left wants state managed fascism to the benefit of in groups, and the extreme right wants wealth managed fascism to the benefit of in groups. We're just so used to choosing between the mild right and the extreme right that we've begun to confuse the mild left - the political group who wants to meet everyone's basic needs - for the extreme.
I'm tired of seeing run-of-the-mill social democracy paraded around as "the far left."
If by "far right" and "far left" you mean people that prefer authoritarian forms of government over democracy, then yeah, it's not all that much different. From my discussions with MAGAs and tankies I've concluded they're the same kind of people, they just quote different talking points.
I see you fall into the centrist category.
Nah I'm not bound by political "categories" because I'm actually capable of thinking about issues. But sure go on believing the complexities of humanity can all be placed onto some arbitrary one-dimensional line. Come up with as much terminology as you can to make that sound like a smart way to understand the world LOL.
Nah I'm not bound by political "categories" because I'm actually capable of thinking about issues.
"I can think about issues" - continues to argue literal horseshoe theory.
There is no line, no horseshoe, not dodecahedron or whatever shape you might want to invent where you will conveniently put yourself as far away from Nazis on that shape.
Human minds are hard wired for tribalism. Political groups will always have a tendency towards tribalism and ideology only exists to recruit more members and keep existing member loyal to the tribe.
This is why you'll notice a lot of hypocrisy in any political group. Why people will support the same thing they were previously against depending entirely on whether someone within their group is promoting it. Ideology isn't the primary motivator for a political group, tribalism is.
Most of the comments I see from leftists here could be copy and pasted directly into a MAGA forum and they would be well received. Leftists and Trumpists are really only different in some very minor differences in terminology they use. Just find and replace "late stage capitalism" for "globalist agenda" and many more comments would work with MAGAs. And of course leftists won't like Trump (he's not in their tribe) but the majority of comments from leftists aren't against Trump, they're against liberals.
Do you not think far left or far right anarchists exist?
People that think the world is flat exist. But what they believe is nonsense and the usually have an agenda of making money from gifting people. Or they're just idiots that don't understand how anything works and refuse to learn.
It's the same thing for people pushing weirdo ideologies.
So there are either authoritarian extremist ideologies or illogical extremist ideologies with nothing in between?
@FenrirIII
That's more like "center left".
At least some definition of "Far Left" would be more: "we're gonna get everyone's basic needs meet by exterminating entire social groups because they're impure". It's not the only one, but it's the one that "centrists" would say it's no different from the "far right".
I didn't think voters had access to "exterminate the rich" type representatives though. I can vote for neoliberal with a dash of mildly left (the Radical Left™)... or GOP which are actually far right.
Tax the rich, restructure police, equality at a snail's pace. That's the far left in reality for voters. Centrists really are bastards.
@mhague
The problem with the US political system is that it's so far skewed to the right that the moderate right Democrats are called "far left", and by hearing "far left" people will associate it with Stalin and Mao...
At least some definition of "Far Left" would be more: "we're gonna get everyone's basic needs meet by exterminating entire social groups because they're impure".
What the hell are you talking about? "Exterminatidg entrire social groups because they're impure" sounds very right-wing to me.
Are you trying to peddle some weird horseshoe bullshit?
@Prunebutt
China? Khmer Rouge in Cambodia?
I know the horseshoe theory is problematic, but it's fact that some nominally "left" groups in practice resemble the "far right"; today's China specially in practice resembles more Nazism than Communism.
I don't consider China to be very left. It's a capitalist country. The same goes for other state-capitalist projects.
While there are authoritarian leftists, I think it's wrong to act as if these where the only part of the so-called "far left". How many genocides were committed by anarchists?
There are more figures on the far left than anarchists. You can't just No true Scotsman Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
Did those people try to deconstruct existing power structures while in office? That makes them counter revolutionary. The state is counter revolutionary.
You can't abolish maters by using the master's tools.
That's just a No true Scotsman argument. Their (alleged) end goal was the creation of a classless, stateless communist society. They haven't achieved that, and they wouldn't have claimed to have achieved that. But they would've claimed that their crimes were a necessary step towards that goal. You can't just brush aside the people most associated with the "far left" label, regardless of whether or not you personally feel like they are "undeserving" of it.
lol. In America "fat left" is getting basic needs met.
i suppose it's something.
the alternative is concentration camps, I’ll take basic needs please
No no, they pretend (even to themselves, I think) that they can't tell them apart, but they can and like what they see from the right more. They deny it because it's not politically/socially expedient, but this is why when push comes to shove they invariably fall in with the right.
All centrists are basically leftists.
This is only true when considered on a different scale. In the United States where left and right are both still on the right, absolutely not. In a country when both sides lean more left, maybe.
I disagree. Communism won the propaganda war in 20th century, and now what we consider left and right are all on the left side. US is slightly righter than Europe but still left from center.
While what the far left want is to "get everyone's basic needs met", what they tend to end up doing is exterminate entire social groups because they are impure... So really they are the same, just different roads to the same hell.
Can you explain to me how single-payer healthcare leads to exterminating social groups?
Like I understand there's some wacky left people out there just like there's some wacky right people out there. But like what has Bernie Sanders done to spook y'all?
You Americans have such wacky ideas about what "far left" means...
Bernie Sanders isn't close to being far left, he is center-left, classic social democratic. He is a sound centrist by European standard.
Here is what far left really means: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics
Not the OC, but I think it's a difference in definition. The U.S. thinks that things like single-payer health care are "far left," while in the rest of the world, that's a centrist policy. Bernie Sanders is a centrist; the Democratic Party is center-right. The far left is utterly unimaginable for Americans.
This is a bad meme and is actually toxic. It’s far from being logical. If you just add another line to explain what they mean by that, there wouldn’t be a center or far right confusion. If you want to continue this joke, go deeper. Logical jokes sting harder.
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