If actual content were the goal, they would hav gotten more than 2 minutes per answer.

I agree with everything except the second point.

That's amazing since all three points were in direct contradiction to what you just said.

Leftists have proven themselves not to be counted on for turnout.

False. If you went with young voters then you might have a point, except that I would disagree with the framing. I would frame it as "The establishment Democratic candidates have proven themselves incapable of earning the youth vote". That's certainly now the case for 2024.

The whole centrist thing hasn't been valid since the 90s. The electorate isn't laid out on spectrum from left to right anymore - if it ever was. A real discussion of how it breaks down would get really involved, but the populist/establishment divide is quickly becoming dominant over left/right. That's why Trump beat Hillary. The Democrats ran the most establishment centrist candidate possible against a far right populist and we all paid the price. The centrist position today is "Yeah, the politicians are corrupt as hell, but it's working out for me". It has nothing to do with the left/right spectrum. Centrist Democrats underperform in blue, red, and purple districts when compared to progressives in similar districts.

The numbers I showed you on support for the occupation included right wing voters who are almost entirely backing Israel. The percentage of voters who might vote for Biden and support Israel is small and shrinking fast.

There is no path now for Biden to be seen as the good guy, and he absolutely isn't going to suspend enough aid to move Israel anyways.

OMFG, if we are going to do this, can you promise to pay attention? I'll be optimistic and assume you'll try this time.

First of all, you are just flat wrong about support for Israel's occupation of Gaza. Maybe on October 8, but that support has tumbled.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

Second, Democrats win or lose elections on exactly one thing - turnout. The voters who may or may not show up are the whole fucking ballgame.

Third, the handling of that press conference was absolute political malpractice. I'm no fan of spin, but sometimes not even trying can be even more insulting.

Reporter: Have these protests caused you to reconsider any of the policies with regard to the region?

Biden: "No." - Mic drop, leaves podium.

Even without all the unnecessary lies in the rest of the conference, that is an absolute trash fire. Nobody expected Biden would stop supporting Israel, but being that tone deaf is remarkable for a career politician at the literal peak of their profession.

Everything you need to understand my position is in the thread. I haven't exactly been difficult to follow.

It's all moot anyways. It just became crystal clear that Biden doesn't care about the election, so it's all going to come down to how quickly Trump implodes.

It wasn't a tangent, it was an analogy. I have also made it clear several times that right wing trolls exist. Why would I be discussing their strategy and how you're playing into it if I didn't think they exist? I don't think you are exactly trolling, but at this point it's clear to me that you are not trying to understand what I'm saying at all. I see no point in continuing.

okay, let's give you the benefit of the doubt

If there is still doubt then you're just an idiot, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just think you're being witty.

I acknowledge Oct 7. That doesn't mean I endorse the response. It seems like an obvious response. It seems maximally oppositional to their attackers. It's also exactly what their attackers wanted.

Getting drawn into one-sided good faith debates with such people is playing into their hands. Ridicule and dismissal defeats them.

I've already explained to you why this is wrong. You are just making an assertion without even a hint of a theory as to why it's correct. You don't think that they expect you to do this? You think they don't expect you to piss off actual progressives when you act that way?

You identified me as a right wing troll as a result of their posts, and I never even said anything of the sort. In my recent history you can see me arguing against a lot of their bullshit, including "genocide Joe". Hell, you can go back to 10+ years of posts on Reddit with this username if you really want.

This is exactly the dumb behavior my original comment was about. You're not helping.

So I'm a right wing troll now? Think about it logically for a second. What do right wing trolls want to do when they jump into internal Democratic disputes? I'm pretty sure their primary goal would be to drive a wedge between the activist left and the establishment. Now, what am I arguing for? If you look back on this thread, I'm encouraging Democratic loyalists to post more content about Biden's accomplishments instead of trying to shame voters. It's basic conflict resolution. You aren't going to get any kind of reconciliation by being rude and dismissive. My whole point is to bring as much reconciliation to the Democrats as I can without compromising my political beliefs.

There is a serious rift in the Democratic party that you seem to be somehow completely unaware of. It didn't start with Hillary, or even Bill or Bernie. Look into the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago if you want to understand how deep and far back the rift goes. You aren't going to pave over the differences by belittling or dismissing legitimate disagreement. The only way to get to a unified front against Trump and his fascists is to acknowledge the differences in a respectful way, and then emphasize what can be gained by working together. That's way more important than trying to win some kind of smug victory in an online forum.

The idea that I'm a right wing troll is ridiculous, and I think you could learn a lot by exploring why you jump so easily to that assumption. If people like you didn't exist, right wing trolls would have to play your side as well. They want us sniping at each-other. Compare it to Hamas' strategy in attacking Israel. They knew that Israel couldn't help overreacting and destroying their own credibility. It's the same thing Osama bin Laden did to the US. When right wing trolls spread their disingenuous bullshit, their whole goal is to get a reaction from Democratic loyalists that further alienates the Democratic establishment from it's base.

That reply pretty much does my argument for me. This is not a group that will ever move public opinion on anything.

Without foreign assistance, Israel can't exist. With America out of the picture, it would just be Russia or China. Either one would like to grow their influence in the region,band Israel has plenty of technology expertise to offer.

Yes, it's impossible. Out of every ten people you recruit for your little revolution, at least one will be a fed. You'll be done before you even start.

The left does have support in the US. A violent leftist revolution doesn't. Right wing militias would be the least of your concerns. The wealthy of the US have their own private armies and intelligence agencies, not to mention the money to buy foreign support and arms. The dollar wouldn't become worthless until you won.

How did Lenin's revolution end up? The Russia he built is even more of an oligarchy than the US.

I'm not sure I even disagree with the idea that it needs to be done at the Federal level. If individual states can do it, then Republicans will start declaring that everything they don't like is an insurrection (as their rhetoric already does on many issues) and remove Democrats from ballots.

Whether that means it has to be the legislature and what that looks like are different questions.

Who cares about a possible WW3? What do you think happens if Iran gets involved? Suddenly Gaza is a tiny sliver of a much bigger tragedy. Yeah, that's a real scenario - even a likely one without the US presence.

If stopping Israel in Gaza should be everyone's top priority, that implies that a US invasion of Israel is on the table. Are you down for that, or are there maybe some other things that are priorities?

The US has leverage to pressure Israel to modify their response. I believe we are tragically underutilizing that leverage. I don't believe it would make that much of a difference though. I also believe that there are even more serious consequences possible if US / Israeli relations fall apart.

It's possible for someone to care just as much about the people of Gaza as you do, but disagree about what courses of action are available.

Just like Jesus.