One to one messages are fully E2EE so are not decrypted on the server side. It was only groups that was still getting E2EE rolled out. I agree tho as an open standard for adoption, it should not only have a server at Google. I don't think the mobile carriers like that either.

Not really so, as MSMS is a major thing by us (outside the US) for most notifications from banks, gov, transactions, visit to pharmacy, etc. Incoming is fine apart from fact it is all open for anyone to read, but replies cost money. Also, where people are not using the same messenger, then it is sms text messages, each costing money. For pre-paid phone accounts, those SMSS messages cost even a bit more. SMS today is still the common denominator everything falls back on. It is very expensive when you consider what is paid, and it is only around 140 characters vs data.

It is the same for Bitwarden. What I noticed is if I go to a site with passkeys, then Bitwarden prompts me with a pop-up to want to add a passkey. It's not something you manually add, apparently.

It's not a race and I would not even start to use passkeys until I know they can move with me across devices and OSs. Also, most sites that do offer passkeys, still offer highly insecure password resets which really undermines the security that passkeys should offer. I waited a long time for Bitwarden to start with passkeys, and they were going to be the answer to fully portable passkeys (I've been waiting so that I know my passkeys will work across all my devices and OSs). Now I'm waiting for mobile implementation before I can get going. I do hope they will also be offering exporting of passkeys, like you can currently export your passwords to other services.

Ah thanks for explaining that. It just makes it then difficult to fully move to passkeys with Bitwarden, which is why I've been waiting so long, and why I never stayed using Google or Apple's passkeys.

The GSMA does need to work harder at ensuring true interoperability between carriers, esp for E2EE. I'm expecting that the Google "monopoly" will get broken up at some point. I would have hoped that Apple insisted on hosting their own RCS (standards compliant) server.

Not the only one, Samsung also their Messages app with RCS built in, and Apple is adding soon. The one-to-one messages are E2EE, and I understand groups are/were to be E2EE. We should be seeing more apps building it in as I've been asking Truecaller to do, as I have to pay for every SMS in Truecaller.

It is not zero encryption, like SMS, though? All GSMA-compliant RCS implementations must use TLS to encrypt data transfer between your device and the carrier's server. While recommended by GSMA, E2EE is an optional feature that carriers can choose to implement or not. So carriers can implement it. I'm pretty sure that as adoption goes mainstream, a "monopoly" on the server side is going to get broken up.

Well German is EU, whilst Swiss is Swiss. But either ways, their requirements are way higher than US law for access to any records or metadata. The other thing is, if you live outside of Switzerland, your own government has to arrange legal access via two countries' jurisdictions. And of course too for the USA, neither the Swiss or the Germans are allowed to just sell off data to data brokers.

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Thanks have added them all. Can't believe I left OBS out as i use it all the time myself.

iOS especially is a problem for WiFi enabled apps or cell to cell direct. Could also maybe look at SimpleX https://simplex.chat/.