Remind me how many peace offers Israel made and how many Palestine accepted again. It sucks but you can't negotiate with an outfit that prefers mutual destruction to coexistence and sadly hamas does just that.

Not saying Israel and the idf are always or always do the right thing but right now it's protecting it's citizens and I can't blame them for that.

Yeah not all of them.

Having security at an event doesn't make it not be a primarily civilian target. It's especially ironic that hamas targeted a peace festival that was sympathetic to their cause. I imagine it's because they don't want peace

There are plenty of examples. Tel Aviv has dozens of military bases near dense residential areas and even hospitals.

These are not hospitals and elementary schools from which rockets are being launched. They are based near a hospital which eminently sensible for any military that values its soldiers.

Gaza is the 2nd - 3rd most densely populated area in the world, only 12 km in width. It is a concentration camp.

Auschwitz, a famously prolific and reasonably large camp was less than half a kilometer in width. Please don't cheapen the experience of those rounded up at gunpoint and forced into cattlecars by comparing it to that of people who moved into an area whose inhabitants were forcefully evacuated (Israel forced its own citizens out at gunpoint in 2005. If hamas had any interest in Israel continuing to give them the land they wouldn't use the land given to them to pull this kind of crap)

And literally nothing of that has anything to do with waht you wrote before.

Correct. It has to do with the thing that I quoted from your comment just before writing it

Again, you are unable or unwilling to accept, that "your side" can also be bad.

Not at all. I'm not a fan of the idf or Israeli government at all. The problem is that despite the fact that they do a lot of bad stuff they're at least wouldn't exterminate the other side of they (the other side) laid their weapons down tomorrow. If the idf laid their weapons down we would see more slaughter like October 7th followed by the forces and complete dissolution of the state of Israel. It doesn't excuse some of the things the idf does but it's what makes the idf the better of the two for whatever that's worth.

The Holocaust doesn't justify violence today, just as the Naqba doens't justifiy violence today.

The correct. What justifies violence is a valid argument that it's being done in self defense. And right now Israel definitely has that.

Oh so all those people at the peace rally were not civilians. Cool. I'd also love to know which elementary schools and hospitals Israel is using as a base to launch rockets into ... anywhere really. At least now others will see how deluded you are and know not to take anything you say at face value.

The one where specifically civilians are targets. The one that that uses hospitals and elementary schools and civilian apartments as rocket launch sites. The one that explicitly calls for the complete destruction of the other state in its charter. Need I go on?

I'm glad we can agree that hamas are terrorists and not an actual military at least

Tbf the idf says they can't confirm it because the bodies are so thoroughly mangled they couldn't tell what happened to them

But even unjust violence on the part of the Palestinians does not change the position of victim and aggressor here, any more than the brutality that some Native American tribes exhibited against European colonists did.

I disagree. When the migrants are refugees you definitely become the aggressor when you start campaigns that explicitly call for their extermination.

And what do the actions of surrounding nations have to do with Palestinians?

because the palestinians supported these military campaigns

Besides, I’d say the oppression of Palestinians goes far beyond what anyone could possibly consider reasonable safety measures.

I disagree. What would you do when the enemy is indiscriminately firing rockets into civilian centers and fields of crops from hospitals, schoolyards, and apartment buildings? Let them keep at it and just call the occasional wildfire or dead civilian the cost of doing the right thing or bomb the launch site? If you bomb it do you do so without warning or give a 2-3 minute heads up that you're going to do so? When people are constantly climbing the fence to commit terroristic acts on civilians do you just shrug or build a wall? That wall by the way has cut such events by over 80% and been lauded by analysts as a highly effective security measure.

Frankly, you sound like an American conservative talking about the “invasion” at the southern border.

except that there have not been multiple terrorist campaigns endorsed by the mexican government encouraging terrorism on US soil with the explicit goal of the extermination or eviction of every single american from the land. If that were the case I'd agree with them about what we should do.

Genuine question, because I literally don’t know this: Is the green in Israeli-occupied territory natural green that comes from good tending, or is it artificial green like all the grass in Las Vegas?

the former

Should it be there or is it a massive waste of water turning a desert into an unnatural and unsustainable oasis?

the former

And if it’s the former, could the lack of green on Palestinian soil be because of the bombings and destruction of infrastructure/social frameworks that could support greenery?

it's possible although then I would blame the terrorists who destroy infrastructure and revel in their brethren's suffering as they exploit it to demonize Israel rather than Israel themselves who, as I stated, actually left all of the infrastructure for the gaza strip intact when they pulled out.

Why does the fact that Jews have not been safe in any society on the planet in the past 2000 years matter? Why does it matter that they were forced off the land? Why does it matter that this bothered us and we've been demonstrably hoping and trying to return for the past two millenia? Because if any of those weren't true I might cede that in some capacity we gave lost our claim to it. However the fact remains that we were forcibly dispossessed of our land and have a right to go back. Of course not at the expense of entirely uprooting those who moved in after us but enough that they and we really should share the land nicely.

If I could ask my own question in return I'd ask why recency of claim matters more than any of the factors I mentioned above. And for the record I agree that native Americans should have far more land rights than they do today. But at the very least they can dwell in a portion of their homeland without the leaders of the rest of those who reside who openly calling for their complete removal and/or extermination and that's more than can be said for today's Jews in Israel.

How much Palestinian propaganda have you been reading? Americans weren't forcibly expelled to begin with and even if they were they haven't been actively demonstrably yearning and attempting to return ever since so the analogy fails on two counts. A third count as well actually because Americans haven't had bigotry, prosecution, and murder sprees and mobs and pogroms constantly plaguing them everywhere they've been since they left europe.

Regarding the downvotes- good to know although ironically you are the person who would uld be least wrong to downvote me. You're at least articulating what you disagree with than giving a cowardly anonymous thumbs down like those who have been downvoting.

Straight up. Israel and Ukraine are under constant attack these days and absolutely not be criticized for defending themselves even if they don't always go about it exactly the right way.

You forgot into the toilet tank