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this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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I'm going to put this out there as just an idea, don't buy apple products.
They're shit they've always been shit and they've never been financially worth buying.
I just got an M2 MBP. In my personal experience it is very much not "shit".
Expensive and a PITA to fix? Quite possibly.
+1 apple products are very much not shit. Otherwise people wouldnt buy and use them as prolifically as they do.
I started using Macbooks because the user experience on windows laptops sucks in comparison.
What kind of user experience issues are you facing on windows?
Let's start with sleep mode not actually sleeping about 50% of the time and turning my backpack into an oven and killing the battery whenever it does?
I wish Mac laptops were crap but they function so much better than windows laptops in so many little ways I find myself having a hard time justifying fighting windows laptops anymore.
Modern standby fucking sucks, luckily my laptop is from before that existed (and it runs linux but that's besides the point)
Amen to this. I have to deal with it on my Zephyrus M16 which has shit battery life to begin with.
IDK, I've had exactly the same problem with my work MBP. I was late to something and the computer locked up, so as soon as I got some level of control I put it to sleep and it seemed to sleep. An hour later and the fan was going crazy and it was super hot.
It doesn't happen a lot, but macOS isn't immune to stupid issues like that. I've had far more hard crashes with macOS than I have with Linux.
@legion02 @CorruptBuddha, don't blame laptops, blame Windows. The difference between PC/laptops and Mac is compatibility, to use any OS you want, Mac is only compatible with Mac, apart from costing twice as much as a PC/Laptop with equivalent system performance and features.
Does it matter who's at fault? The end result is the same, a dangerously hot laptop. Even though I'm a huge Linux advocate it's not an option for work reasons.
@legion02; ????, not even using Windows my laptop (a cheap one that cost me €350) heats up above 50º when I play a 3D FPS game or when I render to an Image. If it gets too hot it can depend on too many things, that your Sys Specs are too low, that the ventilation does not work well because it is dirty, that the thermal paste needs to be renewed, there are too many applications that are loaded at boot that take up too much RAM.....
In any case, it is not normal and requires you to check it.
You're entirely missing the point. It overheats because I put it in a bag when it's supposed to be asleep. But it's not actually sleep because microsoft and the laptop manufacturers designed modern sleep in a way that makes that non-deterministic. So now my laptop is awake inside the bag it normally sleeps in, killing the battery and making the laptop uncomfortably hot.
Watch the ltt video (yeah bad timing referencing ltt) "Microsoft is forcing me to buy macbooks" and you'll understand the problem I'm describing.
@legion02, I dont use sleep, I shut down the system, more if I put it in a bag to carry it to an other site. It's logical that the system still in Standby also need ventilation.
With modern systems with an SSD a Cold start is only a few seconds slower than to start from Sleep mode, because of this the last mode isnt really necessary, apart a cold start from power off avoid a lot of crap in memory and reset the counter of using time to zero, save battery and is healthier for the system.
No, it doesn't make sense that a system in sandby would need ventilation. The power draw is very low (not enough to need cooling).
The issue isn't that it's heating up in standby, the issue is that the system wakes from sleep for no reason within the bag.
This did happen to a lesser extent with the older, slower sleep method (S3 sleep), but recent Intel chips and UEFI firmwares have disabled this.
@kylemsguy @pizzahoe @mechoman444 @catfish @frostwhitewolf @CorruptBuddha @legion02, maybe, it is clear that the standby power is very low, depending on the active modules, and that it does not need much cooling.
Although in a closed space with the ventilation slits covered, it is possible that heat can accumulate. Normally for the laptop to wake up from standby requires a clear intervention, such as pressing a key or opening the screen, not very likely when in a case
That's the entire issue. Windows laptops with modern standby will wake from sleep without user intervention. It's a bug that still hasn't been fixed.
@kylemsguy @pizzahoe @mechoman444 @catfish @frostwhitewolf @CorruptBuddha @legion02, the only cause may be that some process is still running. In Windows quite possible with so many telemetry and threads of some stupid services, which causes so many new words that you invent to disable them on a new PC.
If the default configuration causes random wakeups that drain the battery while it's in my bag, then it's a bug in the OS. This should never happen.
@kylemsguy @pizzahoe @catfish @frostwhitewolf @CorruptBuddha @legion02,It sure is a bug if the system wakes up without user intervention, this shouldn't happen.
But I think that the cause is that some service remains active, this would explain that the system wakes up but also the heating.
Therefore, while MS does not fix this, it would be advisable to shut down the system to avoid this. This, if you use an SSD is not such a big difference to boot it.
It's great that those considerations work for how you use a laptop, but that's not how me or my colleagues or family members expect them to work.
Sleep should work the way it's advertised and does work on Macs. The only significant voltage drain should be the memory modules that need it to maintain state. It used to work this way on windows and Linux for that matter.
@legion02, and it usually does on Windows and Linux as well, and it shouldn't be a warm-up reason. But if it is put in a bag that prevents ventilation, even a weak voltage can heat up the Laptop. The same if it is used for example, which I see sometimes, to use it on top of a cushion or on the knees, because this covers the ventilation slits, the same also if they are covered by dust.
In any case, something is wrong if the Laptop gets hot, except in heavy use, eg in gaming or similar.
Yes, the thing that's wrong is windows modern standby.
@legion02, Yes, this confuses many that turning it off with the default power button enters a Quick Start modus, well this, in Stanby. Normally nothing happens, apart from continuing to drain battery life and naturally it can get hot if put in a bag.
This currently with an SSD does not make much sense, since there is not much difference between Cold Start and Quick Start, same as I always desactivate Hibernation and Index service, 2 of the worst Memory hogs. Index also not needed with an SSD.
wildly gestures at everything
Always speaking of bad experience using Windows, but never explaining it.
They replied and explained it. Try again mate.
Yeah, a different person after I made my comment speaking from anecdotal experience.
Yeah my bad