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submitted 2 days ago by compostgoblin@slrpnk.net to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 52 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

While it can certainly be tempting to bring the claws out, especially if liberals engage in clear bad-faith, I personally have found far more success in reaching non-Socialists when maintaining a level head and trying to focus on bringing unity. That doesn't mean blunting my views or hiding them, of course, but it does require trying to maintain good faith and limiting personal attacks to an absolute minimum. Liu Shaoqi's How to be a Good Communist does an excellent job explaining the importance of patience and kindness with well-meaning but ill-informed people, as these are potential comrades. It also helps keep us in touch with the real feelings of the working class as a whole.

I think Huey P. Newton of the Black Panther Party explained this process very well:

I dissuade Party members from putting down people who do not understand. Even people who are unenlightened and seemingly bourgeois should be answered in a polite way. Things should be explained to them as fully as possible. I was turned off by a person who did not want to talk to me because I was not important enough. Maurice just wanted to preach to the converted, who already agreed with him. I try to be cordial, because that way you win people over. You cannot win them over by drawing the line of demarcation, saying you are on this side and I am on the other; that shows a lack of consciousness. After the Black Panther Party was formed, I nearly fell into this error. I could not understand why people were blind to what I saw so clearly. Then I realized that their understanding had to be developed.

I bolded specifically something I have noticed many comrades focusing on in this space, and as a Communist I would like to see us foster larger outreach. There will always be people who engage in clear bad-faith and insult us, of course, but the only way for the Left to win is to expand, and to do that we must put in the legwork to meet people where they are at from a place of humility and common goals.

At the same time, don't let fascists and reactionaries go unopposed, don't tone-police comrades, and don't bother with maintaining "civility." There's a large gulf between potential comrades and active adversaries, and pacifism does the enemy's job for them. Not all ideas are valid, and people should be called out for horrible views and behavior without worry of being aggressive. Racists, transphobes, homophobes, fascists, and reactionaries in general should be openly made fun of and combatted viciously.

It's a careful balance.

[-] compostgoblin@slrpnk.net 17 points 2 days ago

Despite the meme, I totally agree! Most liberals I encounter are well-intentioned, but have been indoctrinated into thinking that capitalism is the best system we have available. Being patient and answering questions that explain what you actually believe, not what they’ve been told you believe, goes a long way. That said, being patient like that definitely a skill that is not always easy to get right, and certainly takes practice.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 days ago

Yep, just felt like it was a good companion to your overall post! Didn't want to demean or take away from it or you, but instead address something that I felt could have been used as ammo by bad actors otherwise (as is common on this platform).

[-] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

being patient like that definitely a skill that is not always easy to get right, and certainly takes practice.

What it mostly takes is mountains of privilege.

Not to mention that tone policing and demanding faux civility (but only from one side, the other gets to openly support oppressive constructs and still be seen as "well meaning" while those defending their humanity and fighting for survival get framed as the problem) are tools that serve to further oppress already marginalise voices, not uplift them.

Do better.

When it comes to social justice, "friendly debate" usually means "unpaidemotional labor in which you are pressured to be super patient and kind to me while I invalidate your humanity and the humanity of people you love." People's lives are not a thought experiment.

Why do I have to watch my language for fear of alienating allies, when they can watch us die without fear of anything?

[-] Mesophar@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago

If you go in with that attitude, though, are you there to try to convert people to your side. Or are you only there to berate them and make yourself feel better for having done so?

That doesn't mean you put up with bad faith engagement. That doesn't mean you allow them to burden you with the emotional and mental weight of the argument. That they can watch the consequences without fear of it harming their self is exactly why you need to watch your language. They lose nothing staying where they are, you need to convince them to give up resources (mental, emotional, financial) of their own to take up your position.

So, don't put up with bullshit, and you don't have to be nice about it, but you do have to be patient of your goal is to actually convert people over. Not everyone's role is to convert people, though, some people are only fighters. Just make sure the fighting is directed in the right places.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There's a difference between tone policing and humility, a pretty large one, in fact. Huey P. Newton (and myself, by extension) are not blaming those emotionally exhausted or tired. I refuse to condemn those who speak truth to power, or who have a fiery tone. Lenin is one of my favorite writers, and he never held back. Same with Frantz Fanon. However, I have found a good amount of success by trying to be patient with others, and this is a fact I've had to grapple with.

Basically, even if patience is more effective for some people, I refuse to condemn those that choose a more direct and confrontational path. Finger-wagging about "civility" is obviously wrong. Moreover, legitimate fascists and reactionaries are not the same as "well-meaning but misinformed" people as I originally spoke of, and generally should be outright opposed with little care for civility or hostility.

The voices of marginalized people should be especially listened to and not tone-policed in any way either. Racists, transphobes, homophobes, fascists, and reactionaries in general should be openly made fun of and combatted viciously.

[-] Infynis@midwest.social 4 points 2 days ago

Moreover, legitimate fascists and reactionaries are not the same as "well-meaning but misinformed" people

Yeah, this is the big point. If they're "...[invalidating] your humanity, and the humanity of people you love," they are just abusing your patience, and don't deserve it. Fuck those people.

[-] meowMix2525@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Nobody said it would be easy or fair, only that it would be necessary for an audience that is predisposed to oppose you to be charitable and hear what you are saying.

[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Whenever I see these sorts of posts I think about how different they are from revolutionaries who have accomished major successes. The latter group almost universally says you have to keep explaining, keep educating, keep persuading.

I don't think it can be said enough that bringing revolutionary change will require doing a hundred things we would rather not do. It is labor, and it is unpaid, because that's what a social movement requires to differentiate it from posting. I'd rather not go to meetings, or organize my workplace, or go to a protest, or go on strike -- but if it's necessary to get to socialism, I'll do it. I'd rather not put in the effort of patiently bringing people along to my views, but if that works better than telling them to fuck off, I'll do it.

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