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Based Red Dead (lemmy.world)
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[-] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

You're absolutely right. You didn't say that "autistic" is synonymous with stupid, I wasn't accusing you of doing so. Neither of us believe it is synonymous, people don't think it's synonymous, and it's no surprise that people will instead use it colloquially to mean "excessively detail-oriented".

Is that so terrible? I don't think so. I wouldn't use it that way, but I also don't say things like "I'm so OCD" for that same purpose - and I don't think it's a terrible thing to do that either! I wouldn't use those terms like that, for the record, nor do I think others should. But I don't think it's anywhere on the same level, and I don't think it ever will be.

I think it's insensitive to use "autistic" and "OCD" in this way because it runs the risk of blinding us to other people's struggles when we normalize their symptoms as "standard neurotypical problem but worse".

But do you see how specific that concern is? Do you see how far we've come? To even care about the idea of not being able to see someone's symptoms? To discuss how it might be insensitive to not even know someone else has a mental condition?

Being "detail-oriented" is not by itself a bad thing. It doesn't bear any terrible implications of your value or worth to society. It doesn't suggest that you can't be trusted to make decisions, or hold a job. If anything some people are starting to think the opposite.

Which is also problematic, because we sometimes romanticize symptoms as super powers - but do you see? Do you see how far we've progressed, when we have to start worrying that people will assume neurodivergent people are too capable?

So calling someone "autistic" when you want to call them "detail-oriented" is insensitive, sure. It might even be labelled as ignorant - but look how high that bar of ignorance is! "Detail-oriented" is simply the most recognizable symptom of a particular flavor of neurodivergence - and using it colloquially like that suggests that you already know how the disorder works!

In the past, children and adults with autism weren't called autistic. Even after the diagnosis was added to the DSM, it went criminally underdiagnosed for a long time.

Some of them, the ones that didn't strongly present symptoms that disrupted their lives, the ones that could mask their behaviors - they were just called "detail-oriented". They were just "weird".

But most of them? The ones that had trouble speaking? The ones that had trouble looking you in the eye? They weren't called "detail-oriented." They were called retarded.

Do you see how it might be different to call someone "retarded" when you want to call them "stupid"? How much deeper the implications run? How much worse the associations are?

[-] yeahiknow3@lemmings.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I agree with everything you’ve written, but we are sort of going in a big circle. Earlier I wrote that

using the r-word to insult someone autistic is cruel and unacceptable.

For that reason, I can endorse everything you’re saying. However, I thought our disagreement was over whether there should be a concerted effort to banish a particular pejorative term from our vocabularies (namely the r-word). I had argued no, since it seemed like an overreaction, whereas you were in the affirmative, since groups of people were being offended/hurt by the casual use of that term.

So then the question becomes:

  1. To what extent are we responsible for moderating our private speech in order to appease people we’ve never met?
  • My intuition is that the answer is never. I think words should be struck from our vocabulary for a very different reason. Namely, when they represent an evil ideology. That is to say, I think that removing words from our vocabulary is a drastic thing to do and should be reserved for truly heinous verbiage (the sort of language that, if repeated, the only possible outcome between us would be violence). Some of these words are worse than the n-word. They are so evil, I can’t even euphemize them in good conscience.
  • My understanding is that you have looser parameters for unacceptable language, which must meet a certain thresholds of causing offense to be candidates for censorship. Is that right? It’s a reasonable position, I’m just clarifying.
this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025
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