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this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2025
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Mildly Infuriating
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"right wingers" or "decent people"
Choose one, because they are mutually exclusive.
You can still be charismatic, a good neighbor, someone who stands up for friends when things start getting rough, a caring person that worries about those around them, and still hold the most batshit insane political ideas. I happen to know multiple people like this.
People are complex, and plenty are good people who have been led to believe the most outlandish shit. They are gullible and don't put enough thought into what they accept as truth. It is just as attractive to people on our side of the fence to paint everyone else with broad assumptions. It is the nature of Evil, because evil is ultimately a boring thing that we all do every day without thinking about it.
I think the difference is between our definitions of "decent people", because I don't think a person gets to be called "decent" simply because they can be nice, pleasant, thoughtful, or helpful to only the people who abide by their personal world views while actively trying to make life worse for people who don't meet their bigoted qualifications.
Yeah, they can sure seem like "decent people" if you're not on the receiving end of their bigoted ire.
It's not even that they only accept people that abide by their views - it's just that they are oblivious to those outside the scope of their lives. They are not people who hate immigrants or other minorities, they're people who never interact with minorities at all and so get no pushback when they just passively accept the idea that they are stealing all the jobs in the US. They don't know any trans people and so when they hear that trans people are groomers, they just go "that's horrible! Someone should do something about that".
We need to remember that these people are a large portion of half the US we constantly have to fight against. They're not all just a hateful swarm, there's variety within that mass. They're our relatives and our neighbors. A large amount of these people are really just insanely gullible and don't see past their own noses. That gullibility is a mark on their quality, yes. They can still be decent human beings, despite that. They can also be corrected if you get them to understand, which I've done before. Many others have done the same.
This attitude makes liberals lose elections.
Of course there are decent people on "the right". What would you call them if theoretically, they voted for what you want? Would they still be terrible people, just voted correctly?
What exactly is the logic of your comment? The attitude of people judging right wingers based on their own actions makes "liberals lose* elections"? Where exactly is the information you're basing this on? Your gut feeling? None of what you said made any sense.
The actions of voting for people who want to remove people's rights. The actions of supporting a rapist convicted felon liar. The actions of spreading lies that cost people their lives. The actions of spreading hate towards LGBTQ+ people and anyone who is not willing to be a bigot towards them too, like library workers who get so many death threats they have to leave their job and town. All of these of their own actions are what makes them no longer decent* people, not the label itself. Their hateful, disgusting actions.
How does that exactly cause liberals to lose elections?
People who are willing to do and/or support any or all of the aforementioned behaviors had already made up their mind on who they would vote for. When logic and reason was never even involved in their decision in the first place, then logic and reason is not going to magically start working suddenly.
You're judging people based on some flaky righty-lefty dogma that attempts to put people in teams. Stop doing that, and think a bit more logically. People have a million different reasons for thinking a certain way about different subjects, and they might still be kind people. Of the top of my head, i remember the pair of guys who let Borat stay with them. They had the most insane ideas about politics that i've ever heard. But they let a random "immigrant" stay in their house, and didn't utter a single word of complaint. So you'd think they are pretty tolerant. Much more tolerant than a lot of people who vote left that i've mer. Those are the kind people that you lose to the other side. Especially when you call them evil, or whatever you think they might be.
My gut feeling? You did lose the election. Are you not living in the same world I am? You have lost touch with what people want and prioritize.
Judge people on action, but don't fucking label half your country as evil. Many of them have been spoonfed lies like religion since birth.
Can we skip right to the part where we show them films of the atrocities they voted for (precursors for many of which area already in today's headlines) or do we have to wait for all those atrocities to happen first?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5307007/Clip-shows-Germans-walk-Nazi-camp-WW2.html
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/09/25/this-is-how-the-german-soldiers-reacted-to-footage-of-concentration-camps-1945/
There you go again. Nazis. This isn't the same. Find a new angle, because whatever is going on in the US isn't working.
1932 was a pivotal year in the Nazis’ ascent. It’s a terrifying parallel for today
Leading Civil Rights Lawyer Shows 20 Ways Trump Is Copying Hitler's Early Rhetoric and Policies
Here's the list from that second article. Article goes into detail for each.
Neither was elected by a majority. (not relevant now this was 2019 - but if you are trying to pick these apart one by one instead of looking at the picture they paint, you are still doing it wrong)
Both found direct communication channels to their base.
Both blame others and divide on racial lines.
Both relentlessly demonize opponents.
They unceasingly attack objective truth.
They relentlessly attack mainstream media.
Their attacks on truth include science.
Their lies blur reality--and supporters spread them.
Both orchestrated mass rallies to show status.
They embrace extreme nationalism.
Both made closing borders a centerpiece.
They embraced mass detention and deportations.
Both used borders to protect selected industries.
They cemented their rule by enriching elites.
Both rejected international norms.
They attack domestic democratic processes.
Both attack the judiciary and rule of law.
Both glorify the military and demand loyalty oaths.
They proclaim unchecked power.
Both relegate women to subordinate roles.
Though if you can't see it for yourself by now you aren't paying attention or don't want to see it.
Talk about missing the point.
I'm not the one you need to convice, you fucking tool. You need "the other people" to agree with you. The fact that you live in a #problematic democracy doesn't change that you need votes.
The parallells fall apart immediately, since that happened pre-information age. Whatever the nazis did to undermine the educated is borderline impossible to do today. Whatever is happening today is different. It's probably worse in that no information can be trusted, in comparison to no information being available at all.
Do you keep this copy-pasta to actually try to convince people?
And yet they are doing so.
Plonk.
Not in the way the nazis did. So perhaps drop the equivalence.
Are they walking into universities and executing teachers?
I literally listed actions of individuals. I did previously also very clearly provide logic explaining how the right has defined their party as "all or nothing" themselves. If you don't want to be a part of a party that wants that, then don't support that party.
Additionally, you're the one spouting brainless "left bad" nonsense without anything to back it up:
Then you're trying to put words in my mouth:
I never even said the word "evil". I think you just outed yourself.
I never said anything about not losing "the election" (Note how that's different from "elections" like you said earlier. Now you're shifting the goalpost). I was specifically asking about your claims for the cause of lost "elections" (again, different from "the election"). You made a very specific claim about the cause of lost elections, and you also said "elections" which claims like these need backing data and information, otherwise you're talking out of your ass.
But again, it seems you've outlined the disconnect there in that you've decided to live in a different world where you get to choose what I said and what I meant. Good luck in that little world of yours, kiddo. Keep me out of it.
Your words. Literally. Stop labeling people.
I love your method of completely ignoring my point that I've very clearly outlined and just replace it with whatever you've decided my point is.
You're the living embodiment of "I reject your reality and substitute it with my own."
It must be exhausting and lonely seeing the world in black and white.
Those mental gymnastics you perform daily to justify being friends with hateful morons must be twice as exhausting.
Must be nice to be able to not be a subject of people's bigotry and think that people who are actively trying to remove other people's rights and even have a hand in causing people's deaths could be considered "decent people".
Considering you immediately turned on me for having a different opinion on who could be considered "decent people", you are likely to be similar to them in their lack of empathy towards people who are different. Maybe you're not exactly the most qualified person to determine who is "decent people".
But please, prove me wrong and show me that empathy you seem to have for your so-called "decent people". I'd suggest starting with treating me like a person and asking "why do you feel that way?" instead of spewing negative comments towards me.
Apparently you project your toxicity onto the decent (eventhough you're a leftist) Nuance is clearly, not your forte
I can't think of a single Conservative social talking point that would make them good people. You have to remember these are the same people who want to ban abortion, gay marriage, remove rights from minorities, and have 'in' and 'out' crowds. There's no 'good people' there. They may perform good actions, sure, but their belief system is entirely about stagnation and dogma.
Everyone I know who voted for trump did so because they’ve been crushed by inflation under biden and disagree with his awful foreign policy. NONE of them are of the christofascist conservative variety. Most of them voted split tickets.
You went pretty quickly into insulting me simply because I don't agree that hateful bigots should be considered "decent people".
You've shown plenty of evidence that you are not qualified to determine who are "decent people" and who is "toxic". Seems I was able to determine the toxic nuance embedded in your comment just fine.
Yeah when you go Leftist good, Rightist bad, well let's say that, that kind of dumb thinking is what makes you lose strength in the eyes of apolitical people & invites trouble , the world of politics is too murky for you behave like that
Oh & as for rudeness, you're the very definition of hateful since you cannot compartmentalize, You have made your politics into your entire identity & as for rooting out things; Leftists have been losing a lot of potential recruits lately haven't they (you couldn't root out your own toxicity)
I'm "hateful" because I disagree that people who support a literal felon rapist get to be called "decent"?
It's clear you're just a troll, because you don't even make an attempt at logic and immediately jump to insults to try to disguise that. Your post history proves that you desire downvotes like it somehow validates your pathetic child behavior.
The right has shown time and time again that they specifically want to define the entire party as "all or nothing" and we can only accept that as truth. Yet, when people treat them that way we are making things black-and-white, "Leftist good, Rightist bad".
You can't hide your true face, troll.
Have you ever IRL had a conversation with a trump supporter face to face? Ever? And what state do you live in. I’m so curious about this. Because you’re totally wrong and your wholesale dismissal of roughly half the country is an idiotic strategy if you ever wanna win an election again.
Absolutely. I live in a very red state. I constantly see racism and bigotry personally, and also my area is far too often in the national news due to the right's actions. I've personally seen:
And that is not adding in smaller everyday examples of general hatred and bigotry.
Not only do I constantly interact with right wingers, as they are the vast majority of the population here, but I also have family that have been elected to state positions (as Democrat). I helped make that happen, as well. I have also been involved with other's campaigns.
I have no idea how or why you are somehow connecting with my own personal judgement of people by their own actions with a "strategy" of winning elections.
This is the main disconnect. Right wingers either don't want to believe that these horrible things are happening, or they simply like the behavior.
Ok I see the problem. You think all people who vote for trump are like the christofascists you’re unfortunately surrounded by. You’re wrong, they’re not. And that’s a terrible mistake to make.
The problem is that the right wing has defined themselves as such, because that is who they support and position to run our country. So, by supporting the right at all, then you are willfully supporting exactly those people. Trump has defined the party as "you're with me or you're out" and the party as a whole has joined in that.
Additionally, since Trump is the main leader of this whole party, then supporting the party means supporting him directly, of course. He is a clear liar, a convicted felon, and a proven rapist.
So, yeah, I'm going to lump all Trump voters together. That is based on their own actions, not by some arbitrary personal desire.
Except that’s simply not true. Every single trump voter I know IRL - and I know many, most people I know voted for him which is crazy - is not interested at all in christofascism and believes in states rights - that our states relatively progressive constitution will protect our social policies, women’s and queer rights for example. They’re mostly apolitical but culturally left and voted for trump because they hate Biden’s inflation economy and wars. Hell, I voted third party, because fuck biden.
What will be interesting is if the states rights crowd goes after states with constitutional policies they don’t like, like mine.
Ironically, like lemmy, the US is a federation and I think if it comes to it we will secede (defederate). The two things that I think we would secede over is if they fuck with our states abortion rights and if the US decides to try and have a war of some kind with Canada and Quebec retaliates by shutting off our electric, especially in winter.
If you are supporting the right wing, then your personal interests are irrelevant because the right wing is pushing their own interests which directly supports christofascists, neo Nazis, and the like.
How the fuck did you get that out of my comment. Jesus fucking Christ liberals have zero political understanding and automatically assume everyone who isn’t vote blue no matter who is a fascist right winger. The fucking irony. 🙄
Btw biden is a racist, segregationist, Zionist, wrote the 94 crime bill that locked up mostly black men, there isn’t a war he hasn’t voted for, he voted against abortion rights, the list goes on and on about how much a piece of shit he is from the start of his career till it’s finish. And you support that fucking piece of shit and think you’re not right wing? Fucking laughable. I’m somewhere between libertarian socialist and anarcho communist, I am anti capitalist anti imperialist. I voted for Ron Paul, Obama, Bernie in the primary and then boycotted 2016, biden in 2020 with instant regret because he’s one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had, and this year I voted for de la Cruz.
I fucking hate the democrats and their easily manipulated dumber than rocks vote blue no matter who supporters. They’re pathetic. They lack any knowledge of history or politics. They essentially support the Weimar Republic and wonder why they’re getting fascists in response.
And worst of all, they completely lack self reflection and are in denial about how bad they lost (landslide, especially my state) and why. Completely out of touch and need to be completely replaced by actual fucking leftists. They rather lose to fascists than offend their donors.
It seems you, personally, are unaware of the fact that the word "you" can also mean "a person" or "an individual".
The Democratic party is not running itself as "you support Biden or you're out". There is plenty of dissent within the party itself, which is healthy IMO. You can vote Democrat without necessarily supporting Biden himself, unlike Trump and the Republican party. The right is pushing fascism. Straight up. This is not a hypothetical or hyperbolic sentiment.
Do I like and support the two party system? Absolutely not. I have lots of disagreements with many things that the Democrats do. But that pales in comparison to the right.
The democrats are pushing the conditions to allow for fascism, and losing on purpose to the republicans because any kind of economic policy that helps the working class hurts the donor class so they pretend to support the working class with “progressive” policy and then fail to actually pass it, pretending it’s the republicans fault when in reality there’s always a patsy in their own party to tank any kind of meaningful legislation. And the vote blue no matter who crowds response to this is vote harder. yeah nope, that doesn’t fucking work.
You keep going back to the circular logic of “well the dems are all we have.” Great, enjoy fascism, because the dems as they currently exist are completely spineless and incapable of doing anything about it.
I’m convinced that most online liberals have never had a conversation IRL with someone who voted for trump.
All my coworkers voted for trump despite the fact that I live in a deep blue state (purple locally). Why? Because the cost of living is out of control (and then brilliant biden gaslit everyone by saying this is the best economy ever… for whom?! maybe the coastal liberal elite work from home laptop class bubble but not the rest of us who punch in and out of work every day at blue collar jobs) and they don’t approve of the wars. They’re cool with minorities, gays, trans people. They’re not “deplorables.” A whole lot of them are swing voters - voted for Obama twice, voted for Bernie in the primary that the democrats fucked over, and then switched to trump. Some even voted for Hillary in 2016 despite the fucking over, biden and then trump. They’re actually the perfect people to swing back to the left if one uses the right language to persuade them. They hate that billionaires own everything and that we spend endless money on war but can’t feed the poor.
I’m originally from NY, outside the city. When I talk to my friends at home they live in a goddamn fucking bubble. I live in vermont and people here are far more politically independent than there.
One of my coworkers, who I consider a friend, is a 30 something straight woman who voted for trump. I asked her if she was worried about reproductive rights. She said no, she’s protected by Vermonts constitutional right to it. I asked her well what if that’s removed? She said she would regret her vote if that was the case. She doesn’t like trump but she hates how hard she’s been struggling under biden like ALL my coworkers. We had a nonbinary person at work (who has since left) and everybody treated them respectfully and used proper pronouns. Hell, they were better than me, I have no problem with gender diversity but I struggle to remember. And I’m a gender non conforming lesbian woman who uses she/her pronouns but I honest to god don’t give a fuck what people call me and when I get misgendered I think it’s funny.
Btw my state lost the highest number of democrat seats and when I talk to liberals online they’re like nuh uh we didn’t lose in a landslide I’m not listening! about as good of a strategy as fucking over the left.
Democrats and their vote blue no matter who! supporters would rather lose to a fascist TWICE than listen to the left, or the working class, or anyone outside their pretentious elitist bubble.