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submitted 10 months ago by ray@lemmy.ml to c/opensource@lemmy.ml
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[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm relatively new to Linux and the FOSS scene, but I'm not sure how I feel about the unquestioning devotion to a single person. It seems antithetical to the entire philosophy.

Even if he was maybe right this time...

The dude did a complete 180 as soon as they heard from Linus, like daddy made his decision, and it's final, or some shit...

Edit: To be clear, I understand why developers respect and listen to Linus... I just think there are fundamental issues with this kind of top-down management of such a colossal project, and the desire to defer to one person seems antithetical to the FOSS philosophy.

[-] digdilem@lemmy.ml 38 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I don't think it's blind devotion - most of us would acknowledge the guy can be a bit of a dick sometimes.

But we're also grateful. Without his silly idea in the 90s, linux wouldn't exist. Computing today would be massively different - big, commercial, massively expensive unixes like Sco and Solaris dominating the industry. My main hobby for 20 years would be very different. My career for six years wouldn't exist.

That Linus has stayed an actively contributing member whilst not selling out in any way at all for 34 years is... wow. Could you do it? I'm certain i couldn't. I have neither the ethical strength nor moral compass to do it. And I'm certain if he dropped out, some of the massive egos that satellite around Linux, or the monetizing businesses would seek to take over and twist it to their needs.

And, y'know, on the matter of technical detail like this. He's nearly always right. Seriously, look it up. He's not polite, he's not diplomatic, but he's nearly always right. And when he's not, he'll admit it. Again, not your normal human.

So yeah, that's why we respect him and, when he talks, we listen. Even if it's not something we're involved with, it's usually an interesting ride.

[-] Tyfud@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

I don't know if it's complete devotion, but Linus has a reputation he's earned the difficult/hard way.

If he says something, people should take it seriously and consider his words. That's not to say he's right all the time, but you'd better have a damn good reason for disagreeing with him.

[-] Tyfud@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago

Also a reply so you can understand a bit how things typically work in FOSS projects.

There's a democracy in healthy ones, but ultimately, there has to be someone at the top that has the final say. The project maintainer/main contributor. Someone who gets to be the tie breaker, or absolutely final authority on what does or doesn't make it into a patch/version/etc.

This is extremely common, and generally healthy, in these kinds of ecosystems.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

Yes, that's just the way it is in systems that involve humans. But when that final authority refuses to make a necessary decision, what do you do?

[-] devfuuu@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Poop in their bed!

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Fork. Setting up a whole new project infrastructure, getting fellow developers on board with your putsch and everything can be a PITA but all those are natural hurdles, due to how the licensing works the BDFL has no way to stop you.

As such, as a BDFL you rule by the grace of authority of the bootmaker. If you don't make sense, if you aren't respected, sooner than later the community is going to leave you behind.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Is it healthy, or is it just the way it is? What makes it healthy?

[-] steeznson@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

It has worked successfully for linux for decades and other FOSS projects like Python have successfully followed the same model.

[-] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 24 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If Linus genuinely went off the rails, the kernel would just get forked. Even right now, if the way the mainline project is run doesn't work for someone or what they are doing, that can and does happen.

Linus has power because the people who contribute to the project allow it, and they allow it because over the years he has consistently endeavoured to make decisions based on what is in the best interest of the project. People want him in charge, because he has done, and keeps doing, a really good job.

He hasn't always been nice to deal with, and he can get spicy when he puts his foot down, but whem he does, its not on a whim. And if he's wrong, and you can articulate why and how, in good faith, he won't ignore the logic of what you are saying out of some childish sense of pride.

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

Unless a major corporate sponsor of Linux forks it s fork is going no where. The amount of company work that goes into the kernel is massive.

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 16 points 10 months ago

It’s just respect

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Its not antithetical to the Foss philosophy. Thus happens because Linus is a trusted figure, something he's absolutely earned. He didn't just buy control of some product, or get promoted to this position by a company. Many great open source projects have a BDFL. If people lose their trust in the projects BDFL, they fork the project.

Also, the kernel is really just one part of Linux. Distros include a whole bunch of software they choose to deliver a full OS (hence the Gnu+Linux people). Linus doesn't have control over the OS as a whole, just the kernel.

Edit: Just finished reading the chain, what do you mean the dude did a 180? He expressed frustration that Linux only criticized him, further criticized the issues with the kernel development process, and said he was giving up being part of the kernel.

[-] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

Idk what bdfl stands for, but the first thought was big daddy fuck lord

[-] svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 months ago

Benevolent dictator for life.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago

Benevolent dictator for life, but honestly your interpretation gets the same message across.

[-] zagaberoo@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago

The BDFL model, as it's called, is what allows large projects to continue to have focused vision rather than devolving into design-by-committee. The kernel is actually already well beyond pure BDFL, but my point is having a single point of overall leadership can be a huge boon for the organization of large and complex projects. FOSS philosophy has literally nothing to do with management structure; it's entirely about the rights of the end user.

BDFL is not without its own risks. WordPress is a good counterexample these days. But, when someone originates a project and sticks around to steer it, it would be silly to reject their proven successful leadership for such a vague reason as you have presented.

When things do go sideways, people are free to fork the project. That is what FOSS is.

[-] lordnikon@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

It's not unfounded and I don't know of a time when Linus wasn't right in the end. But I wouldn't say it's blind devotion he would be turned on in a second he betrayed his principles. Also FOSS is not about lack of ownership its about sharing code for the greater good. Every owner of a project knows that a project can be forked in an instant.

[-] shortrounddev@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

It's not devotion, people can fork the Linux kernel if they want. He's just the one in charge of the mainstream kernel

this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
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