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submitted 1 year ago by soyagi@yiffit.net to c/technology@lemmy.ml

Archived version: https://archive.ph/3vfmc

How much ink does an all-in-one printer need in order to fax a document? Or to scan one to your computer? The obvious answer is "none." But if you own certain printers from companies like HP and Canon, you won't be able to use core features unless the device has ink—even if those features have nothing to do with ink.

Unfortunately, all-in-one printers arbitrarily demanding ink to perform non-printing functions isn't a new frustration. And that's despite some companies having printers that can scan without ink. Clearly, scanning or faxing without requiring an ink cartridge would improve users' experience—and they've illustrated that through class-action lawsuits. But this hasn't stopped printer makers from fighting to keep the nettlesome practice.

No ink, no scan

Since mid-2022, HP has been fighting a class-action lawsuit alleging that certain all-in-one printer models won't scan or fax without ink and that HP doesn't properly disclose this to shoppers. On January 13, 2023, the complaint was dismissed but allowed to be amended (you can view the amended complaint here: [PDF]), and on August 10, a Northern District of California judge dismissed HP's motion to dismiss the amended complaint [PDF].

HP Envy 6455e and HP Deskjet 2655 purchasers Gary Freund and Wayne McMath filed the complaint, which states that HP printers are designed to enter an error state when low or out of ink, preventing usage until the installment of a new ink cartridge. The plaintiffs are also peeved that HP marketing and advertising doesn't clearly disclose this, the complaint says. The complaint also notes that an HP support agent has said that HP printers are "designed in such a way that with the empty cartridge or without the cartridge the printer will not function."

"HP’s All-in-One Printers do not work as advertised. Ink is not a necessary component to scan or to fax a document," the complaint reads.

It adds:

Tying the scan or fax capabilities of the All-In-One Printers to ink contained in the devices offers no benefit and only serves to disadvantage and harm consumers financially. However, tying the scan or fax capabilities of the All-In-One Printers to ink contained in the devices does, however [sic], serve to benefit HP.

Anyone who's owned an inkjet printer knows how expensive ink can be. That suggests a reason to push people to buy ink through tactics like blocking core features if no ink is present and reportedly selling printers below cost. Ink-buying programs have also become cash cows. HP in 2021, for example, said its Instant Ink subscription business was worth $500 million, per CRN. In its Q2 2023 financial report, HP named Instant Ink a key growth area.

The complaint against HP says:

Indeed, HP designs its All-in-One printer products so they will not work without ink. Yet, HP does not disclose this fact to consumers. … Even were it technically possible to scan a document without all ink cartridges present, HP does not disclose any 'workaround' to consumers in any of the product packaging nor in any of HP’s advertising and marketing materials regarding its multi-function devices.

The complaint seeks monetary damages as well as the end of HP's "misleading advertising and marketing campaign" and for HP to "engage in a corrective campaign to inform consumers of the misleading advertising."

Here are all the HP printer models listed in the complaint:

  • HP Deskjet 2755e
  • HP DeskJet 3755
  • HP DeskJet 4155e
  • HP ENVY 6055e
  • HP ENVY 6075
  • HP ENVY 6455
  • HP ENVY Pro 6475
  • HP OfficeJet 250 Mobile
  • HP OfficeJet Pro 7740 Wide Format
  • HP OfficeJet Pro 8025
  • HP DeskJet 2622
  • HP DeskJet 2655

HP declined to comment on this story.

Canon's doing it, too

HP isn't the only company demanding ink for scans and faxes. It's not even the only one that has faced litigation over it.

As noticed by The Verge, Canon back in March settled a class-action lawsuit [PDF] stating that Canon all-in-one printers can't scan or fax with low or empty ink cartridges and its "advertising claims are false, misleading, and reasonably likely to deceive the public."

The settlement terms weren't disclosed, and Canon didn't respond to Ars Technica's request for comment. But here are the models listed in that complaint:

  • MAXIFY GX7020
  • MAXIFY GX6020
  • PIXMA TS3520
  • PIXMA G3260
  • PIXMA G7020
  • PIXMA G2260
  • PIXMA MX330
  • PIXMA MX452
  • PIXMA TS9520
  • PIXMA TR8620
  • PIXMA TS6420
  • PIXMA TS6320
  • PIXMA TR4520
  • PIXMA MG3620
  • PIXMA MG2522
  • PIXMA TS3320
  • PIXMA TR7020
  • PIXMA TS9521C
  • PIXMA TS8320
  • PIXMA TR8520
  • PIXMA TR7520
  • "and any and all predecessor models"

Similarly to the HP situation, representatives on Canon's support forum allegedly confirmed that certain all-in-one printer models require "all ink tanks installed and they must all contain ink in order to use the functions of the printer" and that "there is no workaround for this."

However, the posts that are linked to in the complaint (here and here) as of November 22, 2022, have a comment from a moderator saying, "It's possible to scan with an empty ink tank or cartridge." The support page provides instructions for disabling the function that detects ink levels.

Canon didn't explain why its printers ever required ink to scan in the first place. But the company has at least agreed to instruct users on disabling the ink requirement, which is better than where HP is currently.

Semantics prioritized over customers

As of this writing, HP doesn't seem to be working toward enabling its printers to scan and fax without ink. When trying to get the complaint dismissed, HP claimed that support agents who said printers are designed to not scan without ink don't represent HP and were not referring to printer models owned by the complaint's plaintiffs.

The printer industry has long had an issue with customer trust. HP, for instance, has bricked third-party ink (and issued other problematic printer firmware updates), along with the company's controversial HP+ program and region-locked printers . HP has already paid settlements for abruptly bricking third-party ink via its Dynamic Security "feature."

The Verge noticed that HP at least changed its language for the Envy 6455e's Amazon product page to say that you can "print, scan, and copy from your phone—from whenever, wherever" to "print, scan, and copy from your phone—from anywhere."

Such semantic games feel more like HP seeking a loophole than trying to please customers.

Such corporation-first tactics may be why Epson thinks it's dunking on competitors with its own support page dedicated to this topic. It reads, "Since 2008, all Epson printers will scan even when there is little or no usable ink left in the cartridge."

But, as is often the case with printers, a sneaky little caveat could abruptly ruin your day. As the support page also states:

However, all of the genuine Epson cartridges must be installed in the printer, even if depleted of usable ink and the printer displays the replace cartridge message.

So you still need an Epson ink cartridge to scan. If you happened to have tossed your ink cartridge when it became useless, your all-in-one printer could be virtually useless, too. (Epson didn't respond to a request for comment.)

It's alarming that printer makers know customers feel swindled and confused—but won't eliminate the problematic design. Printer vendors have become too bold in expecting customers to accept wordplay, settlements, and confusing support responses. Class-action lawsuits may light a fire under these companies, but it shouldn't be up to disgruntled customers to complain to support agents, lawyers, and judges.

If printer companies can't deliver a reliable, easy experience, customers will have no choice but to consider alternatives.

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[-] wrath-sedan@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago

Maybe someone with an in-depth knowledge of the printer industry can answer this but, why on earth doesn’t some other company show up and undercut this bullshit with this revolutionary sales pitch: “a printer that actually prints stuff.”

Like I feel like an overpriced decades-old relic of technology like a printer should have seen more competition given everyone is unsatisfied with the current situation.

[-] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not in the printer market in anyway, but I know that the current inkjet printer market works by selling the printer at a loss and making the big bucks on the ink you'll need.

If some company made an actually good printer, they would have to increase the price significantly in relation to the rest of the market and, for the simple consumer, they see the much lower price tag and just go with that anyways.

Just buy a laser printer from Brother (or probably almost any reputable brand). Toner can sit for a long time, the cartridges last forever, and I've honestly never had an issue that I couldn't resolve in like 30s with my Brother laserjet from Costco for $100-150 or whatever it was on sale for.

Mine is B/W only, so YMMV if you need color (we just go to the local library on the off-chance we need color). Mine also scans, which was super useful during COVID when I had to submit copies of my kids' homework to their teachers.

[-] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 1 points 1 year ago

I know that, and probably everyone here knows something similar. The issue is the average consumer that doesn't care about tech.

Yup, information dissemination is a significant issue. I hope the outrage goes somewhere.

[-] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

Brother is the brand, apparently.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Nope, Brother has been climbing aboard the enshittification train as well.

[-] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Lame. I have an older HP so it’s not pestering me about ink subscriptions. I just get the printer ink kiosk at the mall to refill them and let it tell me “low ink” forever. I gotta figure out what kind of printer doesn’t suck before this one dies.

[-] Copythis@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I work on office photocopiers for a living.

The office copiers are awesome! When you print in black and white, most models will physically disengage the colors and only print in black and white to save toner and wear on the drums/transfer assembly.

Most desktop laser copiers do the same thing.

Laser copiers don't use ink, they use toner which is a powder instead of a liquid. They're temperature sensitive, but there aren't nozzles to get clogged.

Yup, I got a consumer-grade laser printer from Brother (Costco special) and it's fantastic! I got it when I needed to submit a ton of government paperwork, and now several years later I'm finally on my second toner cartridge after thousands of pages printed. I did need to bypass the first "toner low" message, but it stayed gone for a year or more (probably a few hundred pages) and I eventually replaced it. The new toner was something like $80-100 and I should be good for several more years.

I think I've had 1-2 jams total (none in the past 5-ish years), used the scanner feature a ton (esp. during COVID when kids needed to submit hw), and it has been pretty much flawless since setting it up. I paid $100-150 originally, so in total I've spent $200-250 for thousands of prints, and I'll probably get thousands more before I need to spend more. I just don't think about it anymore at this point.

[-] Copythis@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I always recommend Brother because of repairability, I'm not just saying it because everyone does. The fuser in your copier heats up and cools down all the time and will fail eventually. Same with the transfer belt, drums, and feed tires. Luckily, Brother clearly labels everything and they're all easy to replace.

Counter that with HP. Depending on the model, (I'm looking at you M477/457) when your fuser fails step one is to take just about the whole machine apart. Some consumer grade Canon copiers are HP is disguise! (it's actually the other way around)

My opinion here is not to be confused with office copiers, with the exception of HP, they can all fall off a cliff. Their laptops and desktops can go too, the world would be a better place.

Yeah, working on my personal Brother copier is dead simple. I guess I take that for granted.

[-] flathead@quex.cc 1 points 1 year ago

better yet, why couldn't someone design a printer that can be 3D printed and use open source firmware?

this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
350 points (98.3% liked)

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