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this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2025
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.
Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.
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But there is still different levels of evil.
If: Conscription = Immoral
Okay, almost every country does conscription. By that definision, almost every country is evil.
But: Is Ukraine's conscription to stop a foreign invasion the same evil as russia's conscription in order to invade and continuingly occupy Ukraine? The invasion that killed a lot of civillians, with the intent to take over Ukraine and expand russian territory by any means necessary. Are they really the same evil?
Sure they are both using tactics that are wrong, but the motive behind Ukraine is self-defence, the motive behind russia is territorial expansion.
Let look at this a different way:
Some people would argue that: Violence = Wrong no matter what
Okay, so is the violence used to kill a dictator just as evil as the violence used by dictator to kill civillians who disagree with him?
You may not like to hear it but that's how it goes. Name a single country in the world that isn't rooted in violence or that isn't governed by corrupted politicians.
You are making an argument that there's some slavery better than other, ok you slaver...
Consciption isn't the same as slavery.
Slavery has no benefits to society besides enriching the slave owners.
Conscription can benefit society by providing enough soldiers to defend a country.
There are also other forms of state coersion that are no where the same as slavery.
In many countries, Jury Duty is mandatory, and without a legitimate excuse, you cannot avoid going, or you risk going to jail. Is Jury Duty slavery?
In some countries, you are required to show up to vote, you don't have to vote for anyone, you can just submit a blank ballot, but failure to do so can result in fines. Is mandatory voting slavery?
Taxes are mandatory, in order to fund stuff that benefits society, is taxation theft?
Let me guess, you're the type of person to not return a shopping cart because it's "slavery". You won't wear a mask because it's "tyranny. 🙄
Sorry but this is very misguided. Conscription means sending people directly in the line of fire under threat of death. In the WWs, conscripts were regularly executed for resisting or going MIA. Conscription is very very very bad.
Forced conscription is a form of slavery, especially when enforced with violence. I'm using slavery as an example to make you understand that there's no condition under which slavery can be good and the same principle applies to forced conscription. Slaves can be used to fight for a country and for "society" but slavery is and will always be wrong.
Imagine being arrested for not submitting a ballot, is this the society you want to live in?
Paying taxes in russia that goes into fueling the ukraine invasion is more than simply theft, isn't it? If you were russian would you happily pay taxes and consider it rightful?
Are you really comparing returning a shopping cart with being conscripted into a war that is estimated to have made a million casualties already?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine
"According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded on their first day in combat."
Many people commenting here have legitimate points, including op and the people who are angry at him.
My two cents is that if Ukraine dropped conscription and lifted the ban against travel, the army would shrink significantly.
Not because the majority don’t support resisting, most do not want to be annexed by that corrupt Russian mess. But because the conditions on the front are very well known and many think/want others should do the fighting.
Many people want to leave Ukraine, but can’t or some try risky ways out. Majority support Zalenski, but he and his party have more than some critics about more than a few issues. And corruption is still a huge thing despite a remarkable cleanup that is still ongoing.
But without conscription and the authoritarianism, I have no clue how different it would make things. Certainly the front lines, if any existed then, would be different. Ukraine might be gone