705
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
705 points (96.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43942 readers
503 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
You don't seem to know what "lesser of two evils" means.
It doesn't mean "that guy's bad, so the less evil guy is good, actually, and totally deserves our support!"
It means "no matter which one of these assholes wins, I'm fucked, but if I'm lucky the one guy will use lube."
I can't do a damn thing about the two party system. That ship sailed before I was born, and nothing I do as an individual can change it. In fact, I can't see a solution short of possibly violent revolution. If that happens before I'm to old and feeble to help, great. Other wise, I'm fucked no matter who I pick, so I'm sure as shit going to pick the one who just wants to fuck me and not fuck me plus kill my trans neighbor.
I'm sick and tired of being called stupid, gullible, or uninformed just because I can actually see how completely fucked we are. Your shit is great for people who still have hope. My shit is just trying to survive without the Gestapo coming for my neighbors.
So come get me for the revolution. In the meantime, stop calling me stupid for being depressed and practical.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to copy and paste this in reply to some other lemming that thinks I'm a gullible moron instead.
Yes, they do, they were trying to explain to you that it's a scam and only serves to move the nation to the right. Everybody understands "lesser of two evils" we're all browbeaten with it our entire lives.
Edit: Sorry, wrong starting sentence. I meant to say:
Clearly not browbeaten enough.
Lesser of two evils means we're fucked either way, but one way slightly less. It means there are not good choices, just less bad ones. If you sat through the Trump presidency and still think there's no difference, then I don't know what the fuck to tell you. If you can't look at how fucked trans people are in Florida and other red states right now and still say there's no difference, then go fuck yourself.
They're both shit, but one of wants to fucking murder my friends. There's a fucking difference. And if I sound mad, it's because people saying shit like this vote dumbass third parties that can't possibly win, or sit out an election because of protests. People are fucking dead because of this dumbass "there's no difference" bullshit.
You wanna tear down the system and stat over? Fine, great, get going. I'll even help if it looks like you might have a prayer. But right now, there is no hope. There's just mitigation of harm. Your idealism gets people killed.
It's amazing that despite knowing everybody, everywhere, already knows what "lesser of two evils" means, you still resort to just belaboring the point pedantically to repeat what everybody already knows. I'm sure you think you're very clever, but your tactics suggest you find basic knowledge to be esoteric and worth repeating over and over.
I tend to repeat myself whenit appears that my audience isn't listening. You're the third person who seemed to think that "lesser of two evils" meant "if one guy's bad, the other guys good." People in this thread keep acting like I'm happy with the Democratic party or something.
So, since it seemed like you didn't understand what I'd said, I repeated myself. I'm pedantic for the same reason: you're either ignoring what I'm saying or don't understand it. Either way, I apparently have to spell it out.
Nice use of the word "esoteric". Did you find that in the word a day calendar this morning? It doesn't really apply here, though, because nothing I've said is esoteric. It's not arcane, obscure, or in any way difficult to understand. And I don't think it is.
I just think you're either being intentionally obtuse to rile me up, or you really don't get what I'm saying.
It's all good, though, dude. I'm tired. I'm just so fucking tired. I've been watching this shit unfold for close to five decades, sometimes while getting shot at, and I'm tired.
I'm mad, but I fucking give up. My position - despair - isn't worth fighting for and I don't know why I briefly thought it was. I fucking surrender.
Let me know how that revolution you guys are never going to have goes.
The irony here is you're the one who seems to not be reading or comprehending us. Nobody's saying you think one guy's good, we're saying voting for a marginally slower fascist is a stupid thing to give a shit about because it doesn't even produce results.
What you are saying is said by millions of people, you're neither clever nor cutting new ground here. We all understand it, and we think it's wrong. You might be exposing your intellectual shortcomings here that you can't figure that out.
Now I'm really starting to think you're a dumb guy deeply invested in pretending to be smart. Esoteric isn't an unusual, special word - read a fuckin book.
I disagree with you. Fundamentally. Grapple with the disagreement instead of trying to fake being high-minded or just repeating shit children understand.
Nobody's going to update a reactionary who can't even allow themselves to directly consider arguments against their atrophied, ignorant worldview.
Look, I'm really tired here. And I'm formally apologizing. I have so radically failed at making my point that you think I'm a reactionary. I'm not. I'm utterly convinced that the whole world is completely fucked, and the absolute best we can do is try to tread water as long as we can before drowning. Reacting? To what? To what end? The system's irrevocably broken, I can't do anything about it, so what's the point?
And I'm not particularly smart. I mean, I know some stuff, and I've been through a lot. But smart? Meh. When I was in the Army, I drove a tank for a living. Does that sound like the career choice of a smart man?
I'm just so fucking tired. Please tell me how anything you're doing will help. No sarcasm, I want to know. How do you move forward?
I'll quit shouting. I just don't have the spoons.
You are an absolute fool
If you actually want to learn, re read the comments trying to explain it to you, and resist the urge to retort with a programmed response or thought terminating cliche
So you are just okay with these incredibly low standards. Sorry, but I'm not and we could be doing things differently instead of this "lesser of two evils" garbage.
Who says I'm okay with it?
I hate it.
I just can't see any way to fix it.
There are definitely ways to fix it but you keep posting about how you don't agree with it, and you think you should just settle for the lesser of two evils... if you're so against it, why even vote?
why tell others to vote? Fear mongering that the guy you're afraid of is gonna win if you don't vote cause uh oh then only evil people are left voting??
the more we don't participate in this bullshit, the quicker we can get rid of it. Unfortunately, people like you just settle for what you have. Instead of pushing for something better. By just settling for this shit, you hold everyone else back from real change.
Then tell me how we fix it. Tell me what I can do.
In order to change the system, we have to change the ideology that it's necessary to be better than other people. Ture equality would only come from that.
I... don't get you. I feel really dumb, but you're going to have to explain it to me a bit more.
I get that no one is better than anyone on a basic human rights level. That makes intuitive sense to me. And I'm all for a cultural paradigm shift. I'm also 100% in favor of a massive overhaul of the entire government, up to and including a complete re-write of the Constitution and the bill of rights (I feel like we, as a nation, can do better than a founding document that defines some humans as being worth only 3/5ths of others, for instance).
But how?
Nah, based off your other comments and what you know about the constitution and bill of rights, I don't think you come off dumb.
To be fair, this is pretty high concept stuff because while its something that could be done in theory, putting it into practice takes a lot of work.
The only way I have seen ideologies change over time is by basically social engineering them out. In order to do that, you need a lot of people on your side who are also willing to push that agenda. So we would need a lot of people doing things like making memes, having discussions like this, essentially popularizing the idea that we don't need to feel better than others in the sense of, what class do they belong to.
This does already exist but not in a strong way like the other side is, the one that holds all the power. People in charge or in places of authority, billionaire types, etc. they all have the upper hand.
This brings me back to why I don't vote and why I don't participate in certain things that people try to scare me into doing basically.
By not participating, I'm removing myself from this sided argument - after all, there are no options for me to vote for, I don't see any politicians ever wanting to actually change things, they only want to change things within how the system works already. I'm refusing to take part in something I never agreed to and have no real say in.
people have even told me, there isn't a real option to opt out of voting - and that by not voting, I'm actually still voting but now all the votes unaccounted for get factored into the other side winning. That's fear mongering.
If I'm not voting, then I'm just straight up not voting. It shouldn't be able to work the way people are describing it because then its like not voting isn't a possibility that exists in reality. Yet I'm here in reality, not voting.
This is all unfortunately a mind over matter issue where people who have the upper hand, refuse to let anyone else think that otherwise cause then they wouldn't have the upper hand to control people's lives.
But to actually pull that off, you would need to just be better at convincing people. I only have the energy to try sometimes. Most people want to pushback on this ideology because the current one fits them better. And they don't give a shit about other people because again, they probably see themselves as better than who ever else there is out there.
Okay, I think I understand now.
What you're talking about sounds wonderful. It sounds hopeful, like things could actually change. It's not all that crazy to think it could work. It's not really all that different from what the Founders were setting out to do, but with an extra two and a half centuries of cultural advancement and the knowledge that all people really are created equal - not just white dudes who own property lol.
So yeah. I get what you're saying. And I can totally respect it. And anyone saying you not voting helps the opposition is kinda missing the point of opting out. Kinda like I was missing the point until someone (you) finally took the time to explain it properly, and I took the time to listen.
So thank you.
No problem! I see this discussion a lot online and have had it in person with people I cared about at the time, only to learn that they thought my ideas were too radical and now they won't talk to me.
So its pretty refreshing to have someone understand it too!
Lmaoooooooo