this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
250 points (88.6% liked)
linuxmemes
21281 readers
282 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudo in Windows.
- No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Exactly. The QA of flatpaks is done in “trust me bro” framework. You can just go back to windows at this point.
If I install a package on my distro I know it went through a shitload of testing and I can be sure I am not installing some crap on my system.
I don't know what distro you use, but packages in their repos have "maintainers" that are usually volunteers. Downloading from repos from the distro is trusting whoever the maintainer is there. I don't see how that is any better than a flatpak.. At least with Flatpak many packages are maintained by the developer. I believe that would be more secure.
Major distros are usually backed by a compamny which provides enterprise version. Maintainers are actually employees paid for their work. Even if you pick a derivate distro you will inherit that testing process. So please get your facts straight before talking, you obviously need it. Here how it is done: https://openqa.opensuse.org Each package update, distro install process goes through automated testing. This detects bugs, dependency issues, you name it. If something fails package goes back for human review. And as you can see it is an open process which YOU can review any time.
So… how are the flatpaks tested? Please show me some facts. I am interested in this new “trust me bro” QA framework.
You are very confrontational. I love being proven wrong so that I can learn more. But, your language is belittling. I hope my message didn't come across that way.
Either way, looking at DistroWatch OpenSuse is about the #10 most popular Linux OS. MxLinux, Linux Mint, Debian, and Ubuntu are all debian based and above OpenSuse. Debian is by volunteers according to the Debian Package Maintainers Guide. So, I would think that the most-popular distros (especially in the non-professional world) are maintained by volunteers.
That comes with nuance though and I understand that. For instance, debian is celebrating 30 years. In that time I am sure many package maintainers have probably done this for very long amounts of time. So they are probably more worthy of trust than some Flatpak maintainers. But, when a flatpak is maintained by the developer (not that common in my experience) I would trust them the most.
Now, something I wasn't aware of until someone else linked it is how bad Flatpak is as a sandbox. But, I never used it wanting a sandbox. I like it for the isolation of libraries (Dependency Hell). Updating my OS never breaks any packages, because the libraries are separated.
As for qa testing. It would be on a per-package stand point. I see how helpful that is. But, I'm not installing any command line utilities through Flatpak. Just desktop apps, like browsers, game launchers, etc. So, maybe we are talking about different types of packages..
I'm not convinced Flatpaks are inherently worse than packages from the OS's repos themselves. But, I will be trying nix package manager as a replacement.
You were responding to my reply to someone else... but ok I guess. I am not here to convince you about anything. It's not my problem what you install on your thing. I just don't like misinformation spread based on ones believes and feelings, belittling work of whole teams of maintainters and QA staff which is core of why you can trust Linux ecosystem. Them being paid or not is not being relevant.
You belittled the work of Flatpak maintainers.
Then you belittled anyone using Flatpaks.
All I said was that they are not too different. You are right about some OS's having paid staff who have setup some great QA to handle it though. But, at some point you are "trust me bro"ing someone, paid or not.
Not a single person including you here was able to show any hint of package maintenance process, QA standard any kind of security awareness.
And I am saying it's an uneducated statement which fails to back itself miserably.
Dude... really? Quite a desperate attempt to make an argument. Yes at some point people are just atoms stuck together ... a human being is not different from rock if you twist the point of view enough. This is just you pushing smoke in the room because you have nothing to back up what you are saying. There is a huge difference in trusting blindly and trusting because you have transparency in processes and standards which are followed.
So if flatpak and distro repository is not so different... please show me any published standards or processes that are followed to ensure that flatpak is secure, up to date, without obsolete libraries. Would be cool to see there some transparency. Please show me that I am as secure and stable as while running OpenSuse on my machine at home.
Flathub has verified apps. This means the build either comes directly from the developer of the app itself or someone that they approved to distribute their app through Flathub. That's kinda the ultimate QA to me. If the developer of the app can't be trusted then who can? Other than that, the only checks are the community.