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Ukraine’s sluggish counter-offensive is souring the public mood. The government is worried. (www.economist.com)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by CollisionResistance@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Ukraine did sign a peace deal with Russia at the beginning of this mess, and then immediately backed out when the West yanked Zelensky's leash.

It's very telling that the terms that Russia imposed on this deal were:

Neutrality
Stop bombing East Ukraine
Accept that East Ukrainians can speak and learn Russian if they wish to.
Remove Nazis from positions of power and the military.

Russia did not start a war of conquest in Ukraine. That's just the Western narrative to maintain popular support for a proxy war with a nuclear power.

[-] dandi8@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sure, the evil west forced them to rape and pillage and torture and bomb civilians and kidnap children and take over land that is not theirs. It's not conquest, it's just taking land that's not theirs! It's fine because the west made them do it! /s

[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Do you have any proof for those accusations, or are you just assuming they are true because it's convenient to believe so?

Because we know what the West has done. It's all recorded. Lindsay Graham going to Azov Battalion fighters and telling them "this is the year of offence". Boris Johnson telling Zelensky to abandon peace talks or "the West won't protect him". Adam Shiff standing in Congress and saying "we need to fight Russia over there, so we don't have to fight them over here". Angela Merkel admitting that the Minsk Accords were simply a ploy for time to arm Ukraine to fight Russia. NATO insisting on inviting Ukraine in and stationing nuclear-capable missiles less than 1000 km from Moscow. A coup in Kiev organized by Americans, as admitted by several Ukrainians who took part in it. And 14000 dead Ukrainians after 8 years of continuous shelling by Nazis, specifically targeting civilians. But of course those dead weren't killed by Russian forces, so it's easy to ignore them.

Any more double standards you want me to break down for you, you fucking hypocrite armchair warmonger?

[-] dandi8@kbin.social -1 points 1 year ago

Ah yes, name-calling, the true sign you're winning an argument.

"War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine"

[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Wikipedia says it so it must be true.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ukraine-investigating-soldiers-committed-war-crime-amid-international/story?id=93743626

I also suggest you read the UN report that wikipedia is citing so lobsidedly and conveniently ignoring the parts where it talks about Ukraine's war crimes https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf

PS. Lies are ok, but name-calling is a no no? How civilized of you!

[-] dandi8@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wikipedia has many, many sources for these war crimes, including the Human Rights Watch, NYT, BBC, CNBC, Amnesty International, Reuters and even the *International Criminal Court *. Nothing you linked to disproves the claims in the wiki article.

[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes and all of these sources also speak out about observing Ukrainian war crimes, which are far better documented by these very organizations. Russian war crimes are not proven and nearly all accusations come from Ukraine, UK and US, which are not impartial to say the least.

Yet the collective West is infatuated by "Russian war crimes". In fact, whenever an organization tries to showcase Ukrainian war crimes (see Amnesty International for example) Western audience are quick to attack them.

Let's just review one of the Russian "war crimes" as an example: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/03/31/iccs-putin-arrest-state-dept-report/

At any rate, the point here is if you care about war crimes, then you should care about ALL war crimes. Not just the ones that are convenient to care about.

[-] dandi8@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Russian war crimes are not proven

You're obviously not arguing in good faith with claims like these. You would claim any source I provide to be untrustworthy unless it came from the mouth of Putin himself. Not even photo evidence, Amnesty International (which you yourself used) or the International Criminal Court is good enough for you.

For that reason, I will not be continuing this conversation.

I can only hope you're young so that you have a chance of growing up from the propaganda you've been fed. I hope you don't yet realize the evil of the machine you're feeding and I hope one day you will.

P. S. At not point did anyone claim that any war crimes Ukraine could commit are OK. If someone commits them, they should be held accountable. It just so happens they are not relevant to whether or not Russia was justified in attacking Ukraine, even if any of them happened. Especially because for war crimes... There has to be a war first.