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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Yondoza@sh.itjust.works to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

The overarching goal of communism is for laborers to own the means of production instead of an owning/capitalist class. Employee owned businesses are the realization of communism within a capitalist society.

It seems to me that most communist organizations in capitalist societies focus on reform through government policies. I have not heard of organizations focusing on making this change by leveraging the capitalist framework. Working to create many employee owned businesses would be a tangible way to achieve this on a small but growing scale. If successful employee owned businesses are formed and accumulate capital they should be able to perpetuate employee ownership through direct acquisition or providing venture capital with employee ownership requirements.

So my main questions are:

  1. Are organizations focusing on this and I just don't know about it?
  2. If not, what obstacles are there that would hinder this approach to increasing the share labor collective ownership?
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[-] merdaverse@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago

There is no tendency of the rate of profit to fall. The theory is inconclusive, as is empirical research. If TRPF were true, then growing a company would, in fact, accelerate the process.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 hours ago

It's a tendency, not an ironclad law. Competition forces prices down, and rates of profit with it, but this process can be struggled against by expanding markets or finding new industries, which is why Capital always pours into "new fads" in the short term. Imperialism is actually quite a huge driver of this.

There are numerous studies showing broad rates of profit falling over time, as well. Moreover, Marx never lived to see Imperialism as it developed in the early 20th century, where the TRPF was countered most firmly.

[-] merdaverse@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Competition forces prices down, and rates of profit with it

This is not true in the general case. If prices for input materials are down, profits rise for the company using them. One company's profit loss is another's gain. That is even with the shaky assumption that competition can exist long term in a free market. Imperialism, as defined by Lenin, results in concentration of capital and the removal of competition.

this process can be struggled against by expanding markets or finding new industries

There are counteracting forces for it, but expanding is not one of them. Expanding does not change the rate of profit (profit/capital invested); at most, it changes the total profit.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago

If it costs 5 dollars to make one widget on average, and company A creates a machine that improves production so as to lower the cost of widgets produced by them to 3 dollars, then they temporarily make more profit until other companies that make widgets find ways to lower their cost of production to around the same level. This new lower price has a higher ratio of value advanced from machinery as compared to labor, lowering the rate of profit. This is a general tendency, but can be fought against by many measures, including monopolization and using regulations to prevent companies from properly conpeting, ie by copyrighting machinery and production processes.

Imperialism didn't just allow for expansion, it also came with violent means of suppressing wages and extracting super-profits. It wasn't just an expansion that would raise total profitd while rate of profits fell, it also created new avenues for exploiting labor even more intensely, and selling goods domestically at marked up prices.

Really, I don't know what your issue with the TRPF is, are you under the assumption that Marxists claim it's an ironclad law over time and not a tendency, or are you against the Law of Value in general?

this post was submitted on 17 May 2025
176 points (95.8% liked)

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