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Russian Soldiers Say They Are Viewed With Disgust in Moscow.
(www.kyivpost.com)
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this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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At this point I had some sympathy.
And then he lost my sympathy.
It's like certain problems we have in the US, just with different players.
When "law abiding" is placed before basic ethics, problems like these arise. It's also, sometimes (maybe not here) a smokescreen people use to justify their unethical behavior.
People like to use things like "I didn't make the rules" to justify bullshit - while actively enforcing them.
“I was just obeying orders” - sounds familiar.
Sounds like the excuses of the weak willed. FFS Russia is massive I doubt itd be hard to draft dodge.
I am not in any way defending said people for being rapists, murderers and overall just nasty fellows. I would like to point out that Russia has been known to lash out on people's loved ones to get them to fall in line, so running away may be just part of the equation. Now to what extent one's attachment to one's family forces them to do things is an interesting topic.
Could a person that rapes and murders because they got a free pass be considered capable of genuine human affection towards their loved ones? Or are they using it as a generally accepted excuse 'they were gonna harm my family if I didn't amputate this poor fella's arms in a dark dungeon!'?
That being said, there were some recorded phone conversations circulating around a bit earlier in the conflict about some of them loved ones communicating to soldiers about 'how many did you rape/kill?' and 'loot some shit and bring it home!'
Obligatory not all people are the same and such.
Yeah, draft dodging means maybe losing your freedom and the ability to provide for your children, which is a shit situation to be put in.
But the choice is between poverty and fucking murder. Your choice sucks, but you choose to be a monster. I spare my sympathy for those who choose to be not-murderers.
But at the same time, they are absolutely being fed propaganda and don’t have an accurate view of what is going on in Ukraine.
That is a valid point. I personally can't accept it changing the situation, but I won't hold it against anyone that do.
I wanted to say they know how things are in reality, but suddenly remembered teacher in my school. Yep, some of them are completely brainwashed. Mostly those who will not be drafted. Either by being too old or having non-draftable sex(it would be funny if I'll get banned for this).
As Ekaterina Schulman says: this is unusual war. War is what Yong do, but this one is war of Old/Elders.
I read an interview of locals from an Ukrainian village that got invaded - the Russians rolled in and asked the locals "where are the Nazis? Lead us to them!", and were surprised that the locals just asked them to leave, instead of cheering for their "liberation ".
So the propaganda certainly reached the military, at least.
You mean in early days? Haven't served myself(and hopefully won't), but what I know is in Russian army your only sources of information are your commander and your peers whoose only sources of information is same commander and you. This sounds like an excellent ground for propaganda.
But:
A lot of people were from poor regions.
They are in the middle of nowhere.
Draft dodging is probably worse in Russia.
Would you rather kill your own children, or kill someone else's children? At least they aren't shooting refugees for refusing to rape each other, that's the Saudis...
Ain't the world a nice place?
That's nowhere near the dillemma they are facing.
Russians are already torturing, kidnapping and executing civilians so not even a valid whataboutism.
Having your children or parents/grandparents, starve or freeze to death, can easily kill them. Maybe it's not 100% certain like shooting someone to death, but still, most people value their own people's lives more than someone else's.
And it's not whataboutism, just a qualification on a scale: I haven't heard (yet) of Russians forcing civilians to torture each other, so they're like a step less depraved than the Saudis.
I mean, I can have sympathy for any soldier that's being forced to be a soldier. But the reality is, that sympathy dries up pretty quickly when it comes out that while being a soldier they're rapists and war criminals. At certain point 'just following orders' is no longer a valid excuse... and you reach that point long before raping civilian women or PoWs. or... you know... you're own troops while in a combat situation....
If a fascist hands you a gun and tells you to murder a bunch of people so that he can get wealthier and more powerful, you shoot him and ask those people for asylum. Anything else makes you a fascist too.
Counterpoint: fuck going to a Russian prison.
I think there is 1:1 model of Russian prison cell somewhere in Netherlands. At least the type of cell where Navalny is held.
On the other there are rumors about people who commited crimes only to be found guilty and not being drafted as result, but they are rumors.
It's also not a defence. They don't have to follow orders.
They can just turn up get recruited and then surrender to Ukraine at the earliest safe opportunity if they want to. Plenty others have.
It is not patriotic to fight a unjust war, it is not patriotic to just do what you're told without thinking.
Ehh, fatality is high. It's better to not be drafted in first place.