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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Yuritopiaposadism@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
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[-] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 27 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

For liberals, democracy means "they have general elections".

Leftists use a more general definition: a government working for the rights and material interests of the people.

That can be accomplished through general elections, but it's by no means limited to that. It's usually not the best method near the beginning of a revolution.

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 11 points 22 hours ago

Personally, i dont agree with either of those definitions, but im still a major Traore stan.

[-] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 6 points 19 hours ago

Not that it makes a difference, but I'm kind of curious for your preferred definition.

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 4 points 18 hours ago

Ya know, its something I think about a lot. Not sure I could give my own answer right at the moment. Definitely isnt the idealist liberal version though. I think its interesting to think about where "democracy" fits in the base/superstructure "spectrum". Is it a characteristic that creates a freer more socialist society, or is it an outcome of one?

Makes it interesting to see what traore is gonna be able to do, I'm watching it closely because it'll probably offer answers to some of these questions. Traore and the Burkinabe people have been keen on a Sankara 2.0 and they've learned their fucking lesson. They believe in themselves and if Traore can fucking survive, West Africa is going to be one of the first places to thoroughly shed their Western brainworms and do it fast (10 years if they develop rapidly). I think Russia and China both see it worthwhile to work with AES for mutual benefit.

Is this not pretty much the MTW take?

"We aren't going to see a revolution and implementation of socialism in the imperial core/most industrialized areas. It is much more likely tohappen at the edges of the empire, where capitalism is present but weak. We have seen this in Russia, China, and pretty much everywhere people succeeded boverthrowing capitalism (regardless of whether you agree with the decisions that were made after/since."

So yeah China is the most important country right now "we are entering a Chinese century" yes sure, but AES is getting very important to socialism, very quickly.

Anyway, got a bit off topic...

[-] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 4 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Crystallizing thoughts into words is a good exercise---I find it forces me to fully mature my ideas.

It's okay, expected even, to create an imperfect definition on your first try; we can workshop it! Would you add or change something to mine?

Alternatively, in practical rather than theoretical terms, what could Traore do to make his state democratic?

Edit: Sorry, not trying to grill you, comrade. You can consider this a question posed to the community at large.

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 3 points 16 hours ago

Nah I don't feel grilled dw

I think the definition you wrote doesn't resonate with me is that it doesn't seem to value consultation with the people. Not really a definition but a theme that I'd try and encapsulate.

I'd say that Traore didn't come to power democratically, but i would say that everything I've seen so far has democratic support, which is more important. It wouod be great to see that support confirmed in an election, but I understand that there some things more important to focus on than increasing the level of democracy right at this exact moment.

this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
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