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this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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I don't think this is right. It's more like:
This is especially relevant in open-source. It's free software bro. Pick two ONLY: Free, Easy, Powerful
Counterpoint: Blender, once they stopped trying to dismiss critique of its formerly godawful UX as a "skill issue". I even saw Blender users looking into alternatives the moment Blender wasn't awful to use, because they no longer could be special little snowflakes for using a piece of software, as "normies" started to "invade" their community.
Man it took me like 3 years to get over myself and just re-learn Blender 2.8 but eventually it clicked and new blender is way better. I still have to go into settings and tick 'Select All toggles', set Select to Right mouse button and rebind focus to Q. No amount of brute force is gonna make me enjoy the new behavior for those functions, it only gets in my way.
blender is obviously an exception, they have the resources to do it. the vast majority of projects this post is about do not.
if people want to feel special for using difficult software, that's dumb, but that's not why the software is difficult.
"the exception proves the rule" and so on
Well, they could have the resources to do it if they didn't scare away every new user (and potential contributor) with "Trust me, it gets good once you dedicate your entire life to it".
"Trust me bro, after you spend 342786 hours learning GDB, you'll be able to write scripts that will be able to test you programs for regressions and stuff, but only if you write command-line utilities in the first place, and if you needed a GUI for more real time stuff, then you're a soyboy !
I mean, technically, there are pretty good frontends for gdb, for example in VS Code and CLion but I guess if you use them, you're a corporate shill or something because they are backed by companies and contain code that isn't licensed under (A)GPLv3.
not everyone wants to give up control of their life's work in exchange for funding. funding comes with stipulations.
Pick one:
UX only the people who programmed it understand or funded.
UX only people who are willing to read the manual understand*
i learned pretty much everything about the vast majority of tools i use on a daily basis literally just by reading the manual. i know that attention span, and well, literacy are both high bars but if I can do it you can too.
The best manual in the world doesn't help me if the things I need every two minutes in my workflow take three times as many steps as in the software that I'm used to. Sure I can learn how to do it but it's still annoying - knowing that there's a better way to do it - and over the course of a month of using the tool, my productivity loss is probably enough to just pay for a proprietary tool.
And to clarify, I'm not talking about "Why is this function in a different menu than what I'm used to" but "Why does GPlates require me to export my continent coordinates into a text file, copy a line in that file by hand, give that copy a new ID, make sure I made no syntax errors, re-import the text file and then edit the shape of both copies just to split a continent in two halves?" I know how to do that, it's not too hard to learn. But if there was a knife tool or at least working copy and paste, I could reduce that task from minutes to seconds.
idk I'm not trying to say I'm built different or anything but I've done the manual reading exercise so many times that I usually just need to read it once and it sticks in my head long enough that it doesn't hinder my productivity. This workflow is cozy to me
Are you intentionally misreading my posts or is this just a superiority complex? It's not about how long something takes to learn or how often I have to look it up. It's about how long it takes to do on a daily basis.
unintentionally misread your comment because this thread has diverged into so many different branches I'm having difficulty tracking it. damn man
But aren’t you so great at reading that you get everything the first time and never forget?
Yes, I know I‘m mean right now but you ran into that.
I really don't think my mistake, which I admit, and I'm sorry for, warrant this response. I'm not interested in continuing conversation with you
That's the polar opposite of how I work with regards to manuals. I cannot retain that level of in-depth knowledge without anything to anchor it to. Reading a dictionary for a language before learning the grammar syntax does not work for me at all (and explains why I wasn't able to really learn languages until I was a teenager!).
It's entirely possible to know how to use a program and still think its UI is dogshit.
If it's a terminal application, the UI is essentially the same for every program. and it's a UI i'm comfortable with and enjoy using. GUI apps though, I honestly hate 90% of the time. Almost every graphical application is utter dogshit. So we agree... kinda?
If you need a manual, your ux is terrible.
I really dislike this sentiment in this context. This sentiment is about applications made for people who barely use computers. It's for like... iPhone apps to order food. This sentiment is just incorrect when it comes to technical tools made for professionals.
Apply this to like any other profession and it makes it obvious how nonsense it is.
This is a very apples to 40kg bag of quick set concrete conparison.
If your team od professionals need to spend all the time learning how to do basic shit from manuals, you just wasted hundreds of thousands in wages. And you are going to waste more monwy every time you hire someone new.
Engines all function basically same and once you know how to assemble or dissassemble one, you use the manual as reference. And unless the engine is shit you really never need to take it apart.
Aircraft are regularly being praised for being easy to fly as it is a very desirable quality. Usa designed ww2 tanks to be easy and intuitive to drive for service men since it sped up training, reduced costs, reduced the amount of accidents etc.
There are entire degrees and careers dedicated to better user experiences and good designs cause bad design is just fucking stupid and expensive. You pay proffessionals for their brains. Do you want to waste your money ohln their brains being used to run through the manual every day and remembering in ehich stupid ass menu or hotkey the needed action is, or for them to solve the problems they came here to solve?
Id like to hear a single reason why shit ass ux and obtuse learning experience is good, acually, since you have not posted any.
I see where you're coming from, but I've encountered many things in professional applications where the UX baffles me. I know what I'm trying to get the program to do but it seems to require me to keep notes as to how to achieve the thing. Menu entries with needlessly cryptic names, heavily nested functionality, that sort of thing.
While I believe everything I've said I also believe that 90% of graphical applications are dogshit and 99% of closed source software is dogshit and I don't think these things can change due to conflict of interest. I very strictly use only open source software in my workflow and because of this, when I have a problem with the tools I just fix them myself.
May I ask what you do professionally?
Take a wild guess
Unemployed, never had to use a piece of software to make money.
computer programming 17 years hobby 5 years professional
you are really in a mood today
I don't know, am I? I tried to keep it civil, until you argued - multiple times - that everyone who thinks that your software of choice is cumbersome is just too dumb to learn it and got downvoted almost every time. Then you gave me a snippy reply when I politely asked what your professional relationship with that software is.
By the way: software engineer, 22 years hobby, 16 years professional.
Maybe we should just accept that everyone has different needs and experiences and not judge others for not liking the things we like? Does that sound fair?
listen man. you think i'm trolling you, i think you're trolling me, we can just not talk.
No wonder you don't know what good ux is.
Even if I had that luxury, I really don't want to spend my time fixing someone else's UI. I have my own projects to work on.
I used to do a lot of user testing and I think it's something every bit of software needs. I really admire projects that decide to do big pushes on usability and papercuts.