33
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
33 points (58.3% liked)
Memes
55840 readers
647 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
After a decade of accusations, the West still hasn't been able to find even a single instance of a Uyghur being killed. Meanwhile we're getting daily footage of massacres in Gaza.
And that's with Gaza completely closed off with journalists being shoot on sight. Meanwhile anyone can visit Xinjiang
Genocide is more than just killing, it's the deliberate destruction of a people including its culture and institutions. In fact, the reason you're so focused on people dying is because imperialist powers felt the need to redefine it to allow their exploitation. Even in its more narrow definition it still includes things like abducting and re-education of children and malicious targeted actions (forced labor, restricted reproduction, relocation, etc...).
China is a massive country, and has always had issues with maintaining control over its more distant and ethnically distinct pockets. This stretches back centuries right up to now. For example: 100+ years of separatism, uprisings and violent incidents in East Turkestan. Or more recently, 160 Tibetans self immolating in protest of government repression since 2009. In this lens, there's plenty of evidence that could support these accusations.
This sounds like something people parrot only if they haven't actually traveled China. For one, Xinjiang is massive. It's about the size of Iran; 1/6 of China by land area. Saying you can visit it is like saying you could visit somewhere in France + Spain + Germany + Italy.
For two, foreigners require a special permit to visit ~12-15% of China (varying by year). This includes the expected restricted zones (military or government areas), but also the areas along borders (many in Tibet and Xinjiang) and "politically sensitive" areas. There's no official list published for obvious reasons but they'll certainly let you know if you're not welcome.
As a disclaimer for those of you furiously typing whattaboutgaza: Yes that's a genocide. Yes, many countries have engaged in similar kinds of repression. Yes media will amplify stories that paint rivals in a bad light, no that's not unique to western media.
Previously:
I wonder where those Salafi terrorists came from? Oh right: the US, UK, and Israel organized, funded, and trained them, as they did Al Qaeda and the various flavors of ISIS/ISIL, including the “moderate rebels” that just took over Syria. The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent.
That’s a new one to me. What actual evidence is there for this list of ~160 people from the Tibetan government in exile, an NED-funded organization that’s in India, not Tibet? You know the NED is a CIA cut-out, right? Previously:
Okay? Almost every country has border restrictions and military & government property restrictions.
What abductions? What re-education of children? What forced labor? I think you’re just freestyling now.
My point was to rebuff all these comments saying there's no way X Y Z could happen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence + where there's smoke there's fire.
The problem is you and your strawman will never agree on how much fire there could be when you're citing CCP press releases and he's citing 3rd parties and hearsay.
Going to reply in broad strokes here due to length:
I'm not here with any specific dog in this race, but it's clear that these counter arguments come in with a predetermined conclusion and deflect anything that doesn't fit as a lie. Is there any claim the Chinese government could make that you wouldn't defend?
It's not up for argument that this repression has happened in China's long history, you can check any history book you like (even China's). The modern difference is careful media control and domestic isolation, which is perfect for creating this exact vague deniability.
And you're citing nothing and unironically arguing "you can't prove its not true!"
You have provided no sources, despite making extraordinary claims. You and I having heard these narratives our whole lives isn’t evidence, it’s indoctrination. The burden of proof isn’t on me.
I used to believe all of this, too, like everyone else. They’re the unexamined received wisdom we swim in.
Again, I pointed out and fully admitted to the foreign media bias. However there's a difference between dissecting the validity of reports and wholesale discarding them because of their source. If you do that (like our friend above), you've abandoned your unexamined received wisdom for a different flavor of the same.
The number one thing I see on the .ml instance is a total incomprehension of how China operates and is organized domestically. I know multiple close friends who went through a full childhood education and only left as adults. I also know a few who have split experiences, growing up in America + China. I've also personally been and have talked to people who've lived their whole lives (60+ years) there.
The one common thread: it is truly a different world, especially from a political and media landscape. For the amount of shit Western countries get about whitewashing history and controlling media narrative, the Chinese government has it down to a science.
Here are just a few verifiable examples.
The Chinese air quality index is vastly inflated vs America's. I've been in a Chinese city with a thicker orange smog haze than I've ever seen in America categorized as only light/moderate. Conversely, Chinese visitors have specifically commented on how good America's AQI is vs the Chinese equivalent.
China's lock down of VPNs is already broad and growing faster, you can find dozens of threads like these. I personally struggled with this during my visits (Mullvad failed) and only my friend's private work VPN had access. A local we were staying with asked to borrow our access because there was no way he could get a working VPN otherwise.
The Chinese GPS system is a controlled black box and not compatible with the global standard. Your local map provider probably won't work there unless they feed their data to the Chinese system to align their coordinates.
The government has multiple official arms of censorship that have no parallel in the west. The imagined censorship of simply taking down every government criticism is naive; the system is careful calibrated and monitored to track and suppress collective action. Though I know many will dismiss the research due to country of origin/funding, I would encourage you to read the findings on this just because it's really interesting.
China has restrictions on practicing journalism that are complete outliers from the international norm. These include mandatory registration, ethics requirements (??), education level, and arbitrary restrictions on coverage of events and topics. [As a hint, this is a big reason for the dearth of outsider evidence]
This all builds an environment where the tight domestic control and censorship isn't just common, but expected. Certain subjects just aren't taught in schools (for example, Mao's handling of Tibet). Posts on the Chinese Twitter equivalent dissappear all the time with no fanfare. Current CCP politics isn't deeply discussed online because there's no point.
This leads to the disconnect between outsider expectations and the domestic realities. We're so used to seeing politics, news coverage and debates blasted all over western media that we don't apply the proper lens to our access to Chinese events.
That's what I mean when I say I don't have a dog in the race. You can sometimes make educated deductions between what western media says and the official CCP statements, but completely throwing out all outside sources leaves you in the dark. On a topic like the repression of a minority ethnic group in the obscure outskirts, you'll never find the clear answer.