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[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago

I recommend you read this: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/crimethinc-frequently-asked-questions-about-anarchism#toc7

More specifically,

But if we overthrow the government without offering something to take its place, what’s to stop something really nasty from filling the power vacuum?

That’s the mantra of those who are working up the nerve to be really nasty themselves. The really ruthless usually tell you that they are there to protect you from other ruthless people; often, they are telling themselves the same thing.

If we were powerful enough to overthrow one government, we would be powerful enough to prevent the ascendance of another, provided we weren’t tricked into rallying around some new authority. What should take the place of the government is not another formalized power structure, but cooperative relationships that can meet our needs while keeping new would-be rulers at bay.

From the vantage point of the present, no one can imagine creating a stateless society, though many of the problems we face will not be solved any other way. In the meantime, we can at least open spaces and times and relations outside the control of the authorities.

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

That entire FAQ is a hodge podge of logical fallacies; apparently written by someone who's read lots of 20th century history books but has zero understanding of real life civics.

That’s the mantra of those who are working up the nerve to be really nasty themselves.

Calling everyone who disagrees closet-oppressors is an ad hominim not an argument.

If we were powerful enough to overthrow one government, we would be powerful enough to prevent the ascendance of another,

That's a hasty generalization that US interventions abroad patently disproves.

not another formalized power structure, but cooperative relationships that can meet our needs while keeping new would-be rulers at bay.

That's just reinventing the wheel. Relationships need to be formalized in order to consistently deliver at scale. Likewise power structures inherently exist because of the would-be rulers.

no one can imagine creating a stateless society, though many of the problems we face will not be solved any other way.

This is an appeal to ignorance on multiple levels.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago

Also: You are assuming that just because the text contains a fallacy, it is incorrect or worthless. That is a fallacy in itself.

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 days ago

Assumptions are not logical fallacies.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy
Assuming that the text is wrong because it's fallacious is a fallacy.

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 days ago

Except I didn't just point out the fallacies. So you're wrong.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago

How does it appeal to ignorance? It would be hard for a feudal peasant or lord to envision a capitalist society.

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 days ago

It would be hard for a feudal peasant or lord to envision a capitalist society.

And even harder, some might say impossible, for either of us to know what someone 500 years ago was thinking or could comprehend. The argument appeals to our ignorance as evidence of it's merit.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

You should look into Capitalist Realism (people won't read the book, so here's the wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism#HeroSection). It's easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism.

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 days ago

Please understand. I can envision a path beyond capitalism. It's the vast majority of leftists/libertarian housecats who fail to inspire confidence.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

Out of interest, what is that path?

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

TLDR "liberalism". We need educate the working class and use democracy to enforce regulation on the economy. Scarcity is the driving force behind capitalism. We need to deal with that first. Violent revolution will only traumatize society further from the culture of socialism.

[-] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

So, reformism?

[-] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 days ago

If we were powerful enough to overthrow one government, we would be powerful enough to prevent the ascendance of another

I'm not convinced. What if the government was just weak at the time

this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2025
451 points (94.8% liked)

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