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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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"Liberals" are not all the same person. This IS probably true for some "liberals" but not all. The conservative vs. liberal (us vs. them) mindset is poisoning your mind dude, and memes like this just add fuel to the fire. I hope you have a good day 🤙
If all the posts about loving our trans comrades didn't tip you off, you're not looking at a conservative instance, my person.
Methinks this evidence may not be so compelling as the many posts explicitly bashing liberals without context, see this post.
You seem to think we're using "liberal" in the American mainstream political context. We are not.
This is a socialist/communist/anarchist/leftist space.
When we say "liberal" we're talking about people who support "free market"/laissez-faire capitalism, individualsm, and voting once every four years as the ultimate political action a citizen takes, etc.
In the context of the US this covers pretty much all mainstream politics, democrat and republicans (except some of the further fringes)
Well, see, there you've provided context. Perhaps it would be more obvious to an active participant in the instance but as a mere All scroller, context is often lost.
Like, I know that there was some kind of spat between the blahaj instance and this one, but to be honest I'm mostly lost to the specifics aside from the fact that two instances supporting trans rights (as far as I know) had a political difference.
liberalism = left wing bourgeois ideology (i.e the "center-right")
conservatism = right wing bourgeois ideology (i.e. "the right")
fascism = far right bourgeois ideology that pretends to be proletarian ideology (i.e. the "alt right")
socialism/anarchism/communism = working class proletarian ideology (i.e. the "true left")
this is why i don't care for the "left/right" distinction since it was born in the french parliament in the 1700s, and only ever pertained to the political division within the property-owning classes. In America it's especially bad since no distinction is made between anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan. To the American conservative, Joe Biden and Che Guevara might as well be the same person.
"Methinks" lmaooo go back to reddit
Thanks, Self_Hating_Moid
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Yes. Liberals are right wing, just a bit less than conservatives. We are left wing. Or centrist if you prefer to refer to it that way, as we attempt to avoid left and right deviationism
I agree that it's not very compelling evidence. Conservatives are well known for their support for trans people.
I see what you're getting at and I agree, but on the other hand I don't think hating trans people is a prerequisite to being conservative. You can be socially somewhat liberal and economically conservative. Or maybe you're fine with identity politics but hate immigrants. Or you can merely be classist. There's a whole spectrum of hate!
The complicit action of voting for or participating/aligning with a political party that enables, allows, or focuses upon ensuring the continued harm of the LGBTQ population makes a person a reactionary. Therefor if someone identifies as conservative and votes conservative they are, "whether they wish to admit it or not", participating in the marginalization of trans individuals. Similarly people that align with the democratic party (another end of the neoliberal spectrum of America between Dems and GOP) without acknowledging their own shit in the shed are also within a reactionary political body and complicit.
I think you might be confused on the definition of the word 'liberal', at least as most people outside of the US define it. A liberal is someone who supports capitalism. Both mainstream parties in the US support capitalism, and therefore both are liberal.
We talking about economic liberalism, hence "conservatives" are liberals too.
Liberalism discussed here is economic liberalism, i.e. this isn't chuds criticizing social liberalism (i.e. "the gays" reactionary ideology) but instead the behavior of liberal capitalist states to steadily privatize any and all former public goods and services to the detriment of the public (i.e. working class). Both democrats and republicans for instance are believers in economic liberalism with republicans for instance heavily focused upon privatization of the postal service for example.
Huh the more you know. I didnt understand hexbear users' points mainly because i confused social liberalism with economic liberalism and didnt get how you could support (social) liberal views, but still "bash" those who supported them. Going to read up on economic liberalism.
A big thing too is that the US is very bad at defending social liberties, especially as of now with the rollback of a lot of previous freedoms (bodily autonomy by way of abortion as well as the related health information protections that were an aspect of Roe vs Wade, likely rollbacks against marriage equality coming, equality to access of housing via renting being piss poor in many states, protections for unfair termination of your job being shit in work at will states). The US preaches the idea of being a philosophically liberal (in the aspect of allowing people self determination away from the state as well as determination of the government by way of voting), yet this is disproven with the continued invasion into government spaces via various church groups and capitalist interests. This is saying nothing to how material conditions are such a core factor in the outcomes of people's lives and health (necropolitics is a interesting field to read up on which was started by many post colonial country intellectuals such as Achille Mbembe).
Hell we haven't even touched on gerrymandering, the electoral college, or mass media campaigning. There's a reason why the saying "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is popular among the leftist sphere because the only liberalism that exists within the US is by permission of the state and capital because it benefits them and anything that could materially benefit the people is shunned (remember how angry the political class became giving out stimulus checks?)
Conservatives are also liberals, except when they're fascists and sometimes even then
the bourgeoisie
Go smoke weed kid