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other instances: why do you hate us?
(hexbear.net)
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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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I agree with your last statement 100%
I am generally against defederation and censorship.
In response to the OP of this topic though, people hate hexbears because of the constant hardcore brigading and the huge inline image abuse.
It's annoying as fuck. As soon as you smell a "lib", even though you are usually wrong, it just turns into a massive dogpile on anyone who doesn't share your identical belief structure.
That isn't debate, it's bullying. You have the numbers to pull it off but if it carries on you will absolutely end up defederated from everywhere.
Brigading is a made-up reddit thing. It used to be normal for forums to "raid" other forums, and if you couldn't deal with that, it was on you. However we are not "raiding" there is no organised movement to go somewhere and post on it. We see the same posts pop up in "all", and we have a large and active userbase, that's all that's happening.
Yeah, that bug is getting worked on.
Yeah that's the story, but it's not really what I've been observing. Plenty of people that disagree with the hexbear userbase have had nice discussions. Generally I see users from other instances post condescending "gotchas" which then, rightly, get dogpiled on. They then cry "foul" as if they didn't themselves initiate the interaction on those terms. Either that or they will be met by a user willing to engage in good-faith discussion, but they instead choose to continue with condescention. I see a lot of "I'm not reading all that" and "lmao you really believe that?" in response to well-thought out responses, not to mention the many accusations of being a bot. These users are then treated as condescending dickheads, because hexbear has had a lot of issues with wreckers, so there's a pretty low tolerance for that kinda stuff. Hexbear generally has a hostile culture to bad-faith debatebro tactics.
Disagreements are common, so it's not really that. It's just a question of wether they're engaging in good faith or not. I see plenty of users post about stuff that's well outside the general culture, that then have a nice discussion.
Regarding being "wrong about lib" I'm gonna disagree again. I think you have a different definition of what that is. Oftentimes we think of ourselves as being "leftists" or whatever, but by our words and actions we support the current (neo-liberal) system. Then it does not matter what we identify as, if we're still furthering something else. If you're interested in that kinda stuff you might want to read Combat Liberalism. It's pretty short, so it's a nice and quick primer.
You realise we can access hexbear.net and see the local posts? It's absolutely coordinated behaviour. Hexbear users post links to a given thread from another instance in chat or chapo or wherever with a suitably inflammatory title along with a call to arms along the lines of "Look at this terrible liberal take, OMG the entire cookie baking community is full of bigots and transphobes. Cookie bakers are bourgeois as hell!". Cue your entire community piling in to the cookie baking community to completely destroy all discussion of baking cookies until they get bored and move on.
You spend a lot of time talking about good faith discussions but from my perspective it's the hexbear community that isn't acting in good faith in most instances.
I accept this, and I am guilty of this to the extreme. I was extremely politically active in my late teens and early 20's, and active in the labor movement. I have the criminal record as proof. I'm old as fuck now, and I have several people that depend on me NOT being in jail, and to continue pretending to be a functional member of our neo-liberal society to keep them from starving in the street.
I hate that the entirety of my time and energy is now exhausted on enriching "investors". I saw the system for what it is from a young age and fell into all of the traps anyway. The traps are effective, but that does not mean that my political ideology is in alignment with the system that sets them. Still, I acknowledge your point that things cannot change without action, and most times that means violent and illegal action. The system is built to protect itself.
As for your link... Mao Tse-tung killed, brutalised and starved to death more human beings than any other person that has ever lived. MILLIONS dead. If the society you seek to build is based on that same, tired old philosophy then I will fight you every step of the way. It's a very strange person that looks at the history of China over the last 100 years and decides they'd like to repeat it.
This is why Lenin emphasised a party with paid, professional cadre. Workers don't have the time and have responsibilities to others. It's not quite as bad as it used to be, but a professional core is still essential.
Join a party that's only moderately terrible, pay your dues.
As for Mao...it was arguably the least terrible century China has ever had, despite his errors. Most notably leaning too far into the KPAM's anarchist theory during the Great Leap Forward. (I like the KPAM but they had bad takes like anyone else.)