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Blahaj admin defending a blatant transphobe
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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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Narcissus is a Greek name. Narcissistic is an english word. The ancient greeks did not call anything narcissistic, because the word didn't exist.
The N word comes from Spanish but people who use it aren't speaking spanish, are they?
The English word "narcissistic" existed long before the diagnosis, just like "Sisyphean" exists without an attached disorder (ODD in another timeliness, maybe).
I find your claim dubious, but in any case, the N word existed in english before it became a slur too. But centuries of racial abuse made it into a slur
Why do you think the N word existed in English as anything but a slur? Narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder are not equal. I'm open to changing terminology if it's doing harm, but I think this one needs to be that the term for NPD should likely change. From what I know (and correct me if I'm wrong please), the common usage of "narcissism" has very little to do with NPD, which was coined later and seems almost derogatory in itself (in effect, grouping those with NPD along with the type of asshole commonly called narcissists)
Edit: I have been convinced that this story I was told was wrong about NPD. There doesn't seem to be a usage of narcissism outside of attempted psychological prescription before 1900 in english, and only first in 1899 in German which caused its use in English.
The common use of narcissism in the vernacular originates with Christopher Lasch's book The Culture Of Narcissism, which put forward the thesis that NPD was becoming more normalised in contemporary america. That book inspired self help guru hacks to sell books which told people that all their problems are caused by people with NPD holding them back and abusing them. People love being told that all their problems are caused by a vulnerable minority that seeks to destroy them, that's how Hitler got into power. So anyway, these books inspired the idea that everyone's abusive parents and bosses and partners are narcissists, and once that happened, more and more people started drawing on this growing linguistic awareness of the word narcissist, generally falling into one of two camps: Either they hate people with NPD and think we're all abusive, or they don't know the history of the word and just repeat it without thinking. And those two groups sound identical when they throw the word about as an insult. When I call out use of the slur, I never know which of the two groups I'm about to have an argument with. Sometimes it's both.
I'm taking you in good faith here, despite being warned that you're a possible "wrecker". I have been convinced that my post (where I tried to make clear that I could easily be wrong) was incorrect about the origins in english.
I think what we're really getting at here is a difference between some of what constitutes a psychology which is deserving of protection from incorrect associations with acute attributes found in broader populations. The R word clearly describes something which cannot be described as "traits everyone has but this person has more of it" but is instead taking a broad and incorrect category and using it to demean both the target and those who are neuro-atypical. With Narcissism, it seems that those in favor of using the word broadly are really then taking a stand that NPD exists as just an extreme of the scale of narcissism and is, therefore, to be less protected. I am unconvinced of this argument, or at least not convinced that, even if it were true, the word "narcissism" is really necessary outside of medical contexts. I think this is unpopular on hexbear based on the posts I've seen, but I'm fine with stopping using the word outside of describing possible the specific psychology.
I think an interesting thing to consider though, which doesn't discount this argument, is the social situation which leads to the commonly used terms. Anxiety was a term used broadly to describe a spectrum of anxious traits in the middle of the last century and was for the first time made primarily psychological instead of sociological. The same can be said of despression in recent years. I think that narcissism as a psychological disorder likely also has a base in liberal capitalism which has only gotten more acute, and it may be less widespread and blamed on failures of society once we move on from this terrible ideological base
Your point about anxiety reminded me of the term "hysteria". It comes from the Greek word for uterus, because old timey psychologists were deeply misogynist. Despite a lot of non-sexist use during the years in which I grew up, it's now said very rarely, and I think the sexism is a component. It's gone the way I wish "narcissism" would go.
Speaking of origins, I'm reminded of the fact that Narcissus, the original narcissist, died because he was a narcissist. He couldn't drink a sip of water right in front of his face because he was so obsessed with his self-image. When your brain works so badly that you die, I call that a mental disability. Maybe all the people saying it's not a disability because it comes from Greek should learn more Greek.
This is a simple version of the "if it affects your life" argument for defining disorders, and I think all would agree that someone so narcissistic that it would kill them have a situation which must be treated much more seriously than someone who is just self-centered in a way that makes them a successful asshole (I would place many successful businesspeople in this category). These are of course fluid, and I think describing them as self-centered and lacking empathy is fine enough to avoid utilizing a word I've been convinced is unnecessary and possibly ableist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger#Etymology_and_history
This says first use in english was 1574, first derogatory use was 1775
The separation of 'derogatory' and 'patronizing' as your link shows is not a difference in it being a slur or not, but a difference in social understanding of the word. It was always a slur
edit: I say this not as a disagreement about the term narcissism, but that it's comparison to the N word seems unfounded to me and not related, maybe even downplaying the relative harm of the N word.
That's an interesting thing. Most people are biased to think that everyone else sees things the same way they do. If Adam says pears are just as tasty as apples, and Bob thinks pears taste like shit, then Bob will jumpt to the conclusion that Adam thinks apples taste bad. Because Bob is incapable of imagining that Adam disagrees with Bob on the taste of pears. Whichever is the more deeply held belief is the one projected onto the one drawing the equation. If I say the N word and the other N word have a single thing in common, then I must be making light of racism, because people believe I must agree with their disdain for narcissists more strongly than they believe I must agree with their progressive views on race. Perhaps because they hold the disdain for narcissists more closely.
I actually do think the racial N word is a whole world more offensive and more serious than the other N word. I was just drawing a single point of similarity: They both have an older, non-bigoted root in another language. And I was just using that single point of similarity to attack a bigot's argument. But it's interesting how most people will turn a single point of similarity into a sweeping statement.
Marxism as a framework already answers many of these questions sufficiently for me by taking the social whole always into account as relativity van ABSOLUTE relativity. That's why I describe it as harm, not as some inherent good or bad outside of the social structure of its use. And I think it's relatively much more harmful to black people to be called the N word than to those with NPD being called the other n word (considering the ways that oppression occurs to such groups being actuele different). That is not an excuse to use the word tho
An English word that existed long before anyone was ever diagnosed with NPD. I'm very sorry for your diagnosis but trying to make an entire existing word unusable for everyone else is kinda the definition of narcissistic also.
X to doubt on your claim there, but why does that matter? The N word and the R word existed before they were slurs too. Are you going to apply the same logic there or do you have a unique hatred for pwNPD?
You doubt that a word meaning "like Narcissus" was used to describe behaviour similar to the popular thousands of years old mythological figure, before modern psychological science used it to describe a personality disorder?
Yes. I'm also going to doubt that anybody in this thread was speaking Greek when they used the word narcissist, given that all these comments are in english.
English mugs other languages and their associated grammatical rules all the time, especially Greek and Latin, and especially especially words related to mythological figures, like Herculean, Titanic or indeed, Narcissistic.
English isn't a person, it's a language. The root word narcissism was pulled into english by people. Those people were late 19th century psychologists.
And since it has become a part of general usage English
It was put into general use by a book which claimed comtemporary america was normalising NPD, and later by self help books selling the old Hitler special - all your problems are caused by a vulnerable minority and please give me money
Just fyi, your posts in this thread are getting passed around on chan sites and are getting dozens of (You)s, I didn't start it. Don't try to delete they were using archive links and screenshots.
It's absolutely deserved. You're talking about a term for an aggressive personality that is sometimes related to a DSM classification that's a lot closer to psychopathy than, say, autism or schizophrenia when it comes to carrying a stigma, having symptoms which interfere with life & socializing.
really showing self-awareness when you say
while gloating about the harassment this user is going to receive from 4chan. classy.
Eh, I don't mind being 4chan's "lolcow" or whatever other ableist bullshit they've invented this week if it means I'm making radical queer identities more visible and making more common queer identities seem more normal. I mean, Trump singlehandedly normalised fascism in the US by being such a fascist clown. Maybe I could go a little way to being the opposite of that. Let them parade my identity around in front of everyone, that's what we did ourselves at Stonewall and we ought to be doing it more often.
nah fuck that. I'm bullying 4chan weirdos any day of the week and once I've got some good material this is going in the dunk tank for the rest of hexbear to dogpile. fascists can get fucked.
You're not getting any good material. This is like saying you should ban the phrase "stay mad" over the existence of people with diagnosed anger management problems. Hexbear already dunked on the person you're replying to for this. This is just round 2 on a bunch of obscure chans, none of which are your beloved Trumpists.
lmao you just gave it to me
By all means, cry about this in public. Demand recompense for the narcissistic injury
lmao whatever you say cracker
They're making fun of you for being an obvious wrecker with zero self awareness and trying to get people to stop using a word - (this is my addition) when it would be better to redefine narcissistic personality disorder. Just like histrionic is deprecated
Not 4chan
Not 4chan lol
I like how you think people being made fun of online for bad takes now constitutes the same kind of difficult experience autistic and schizophrenic people have with socializing lmao. The new Chapo crowd isn't worth a damn.
ahh yes 4chan, famous for it's restraint. lol it's just some light ribbing. haha no one gets hurt.
also dodging responsibility is
They're absolutely correct that hexbear is taken over by narcissistic wrecker radlibs and seeing the site almost move into banning "the n-word" (funny because it would be exactly like banning "cracker" like it's the real n word) is just the cherry on top for them
It's not on 4chan though