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[-] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Here's a dbzer0 admin being super condescending about how important it is not to vote, and saying that voting will "legitimize" a whole bunch of stuff they don't want, and anyway there's no particular difference between Kamala Harris and Trump, so why bother? After all, he's doing what really matters for societal change in the US: Making and running FOSS. You can expand out the whole conversation and read it, the dude is out of his goddamned mind on this topic and for some reason absolutely convinced that everyone needs to receive his wisdom. It honestly reminds me of talking to a teenager, or a MAGA person about vaccines, or something.

Here's a huge thread with a bunch of people weighing in, on the topic of whether or not "electoralism" should be permitted on a political post in an anarchism forum. Pretty much all the Lemmy mods and admins involved opined that it should not.

So yes, it's common on Lemmy to see people advocate for not voting and that being the extent of your involvement with the official political process. And, they sometimes go further into apparently claiming that that should be the extent of your entire political involvement, or that people should be banned for saying otherwise. We've been talking in this thread about "protest voters," so presumably the concept is also known within the real world, but I was mainly talking about people giving their opinions on Lemmy, and on Lemmy it is very common.

Here’s a dbzer0 admin being super condescending about how important it is not to vote

OK...sort of a glaring problem - the source you're citing doesn't actually back up the claim you made.

you said, emphasis added:

Mostly what I am criticizing here is this whole strategy of just not voting, and hoping that that alone and nothing else

and then, the top comment in the thread you linked:

Can you outline those things that actually matter, that you are doing?

Direct action for mutual aid. Anarchism. I’m helping my fellow humans outside of the capitalist system with my every waking moment that is not dedicated to survival.

every time I've seen a "don't vote" argument put forward seriously - no one actually says what you're claiming of "don't vote, and don't do anything else".

voting happens one day out of the year, and not even every year. even if you count primaries and one-off special elections you're still only looking at a handful of days (here in WA they have a very stupid fondness for having both a February special election and an April special election, usually for ballot initiatives they want low turnout for)

so the actual non-strawman argument goes, that the impact of voting once every 2-4 years is minuscule, compared to the impact it's possible to have on the other 364 days of the year, by getting engaged in things outside electoral politics, with mutual aid being the most well-known example.

but anyway, that user gets pressed for examples of what they actually do, and they say they do FOSS stuff. and you're assuming that's all they do. which, maybe it is. but Lemmy posts are not depositions - that user isn't sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. besides FOSS shit, maybe they crochet socks for homeless people. maybe they sabotage oil pipelines. maybe they crochet socks for oil pipeline saboteurs.

I have some friends who are anarchists, or on the anarchist spectrum. every single one of them has very good opsec. there is a strong cultural norm of "don't brag about shit online".

I've done shit in the past that I will never post details about online. or, maybe I haven't, maybe I'm just saying that hypothetically to prove a point. (if a lawyer or fed is reading this, I absolutely have not, I am 100% a couch potato and my political beliefs never spill out into the real world, I have never taken any overt acts in furtherance of anything that may or may not have been a criminal act in that jurisdiction at that time)

those opsec-minded friends would probably chide me even for posting the joking paragraph above. people have gone to jail because they got goaded into forum arguments that started with "you're just a keyboard warrior, you don't do anything in the real world" and then they bragged about circumstantial details that seemed anonymized enough that it'd be safe to post them online.

so if you see someone online saying "I don't vote", and they don't mention anything else they do that's politically involved...don't assume that means they don't do anything. maybe they just have good opsec.

but for the sake of argument, let's say that user you linked to truly doesn't vote, and doesn't do anything political other than running some Lemmy servers. so what?

like, yeah, it'd be good if they voted, and it'd be good if they joined their local Food Not Bombs chapter or whatever. but you going on Lemmy and trying to scold them into voting is never gonna persuade them.

in general, the thing I wish more centrist Democrats learned was scolding doesn't work...you can try to scold someone into voting, but you can never scold someone into being excited about voting. excitement means they tell their friends, they put up yard signs and bumper stickers, they volunteer for the campaign, they stand in line to vote even if it takes 8 hours because of voter suppression, etc.

Here’s a huge thread with a bunch of people weighing in, on the topic of whether or not “electoralism” should be permitted on a political post in an anarchism forum. Pretty much all the Lemmy mods and admins involved opined that it should not.

I'm not familiar with that corner of Lemmy....but it looks like you went into a sublemmy that is explicitly for anarchists to talk with other anarchists, tried to pick a argument with them, got banned, and then made a post on a different sublemmy that is exclusively for "I want to complain about getting banned from a sublemmy"

and IDK man...honestly it seems like you're salty about getting banned and are holding a collective grudge against every anarchist on Lemmy?

So yes, it’s common on Lemmy to see people advocate for not voting and that being the extent of your involvement with the official political process.

so as i've said, I don't think the "that being the extent of your involvement" part holds up...but also, remember that Lemmy is a tiny slice of the internet, and the two examples you linked to are from anarchism forums on Lemmy, which are going to be a tiny slice of a tiny slice. that first thread you linked has 24 upvotes and 12 downvotes, showing that it's just an incredibly small niche, but also that it's somewhat controversial even among Lemmy anarchists.

usually, when we talk about protest votes, the concern is there being so many protest votes that it swings the election. and like...anarchists on Lemmy are simply never going to be numerous enough to matter.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

and then, the top comment in the thread you linked:

   Can you outline those things that actually matter, that you are doing?  

Direct action for mutual aid. Anarchism. I’m helping my fellow humans outside of the capitalist system with my every waking moment that is not dedicated to survival.

Yes, and then someone quizzed him for more details, and it turns out that that meant "setting up a mutual aid sublemmy, running an anarchist Lemmy instance, helping my fellow humans create AI art through a shared network." Nothing that was going to do a fucking thing to prevent the horror that's happening in Gaza, CECOT, nothing for working people, he just runs a fucking web site and claims credit for that as his political contribution.

(Edit: I really cannot overstate how disgusted I am with this point of view. You know what some of the politicians were doing while he was running his FOSS? They went down to El Salvador and met with Garcia, talked with lawyers, put themselves at some personal risk to fight for someone who needed it, and now everyone's out of CECOT because they took some fucking direct action. It's not an either or. You can like democracy and direct action both. Fuck man. FOSS is great. Running Lemmy instances is great. But don't fucking confuse that with what is going to get us out of this horror and into a better state.)

I run some web sites too, some are even oriented towards helping people get access to information because I do agree with him that that stuff is important. I would never dream of claiming credit for those things as super-superior things that are producing some kind of societal good, and talk down to someone who is claiming some other way of influencing the world and telling them not to do the things they're doing, because my way is better. That's why I say he sounds like a teenager. The whole thing is fucking insane.

I have some friends who are anarchists, or on the anarchist spectrum. every single one of them has very good opsec. there is a strong cultural norm of "don't brag about shit online".

Oh, pardon me, Corporal. I didn't realize he was doing all kinds of vital political activism and just couldn't talk about it, for reasons of mission security.

It would have been perfectly fine for him to say, "I don't really want to talk about my IRL activities, but yes, I do work hard at making a difference in ways that I think are a lot more important than periodically voting." If he'd said that, I wouldn't have needed to bring up this one as an example. It was specifically the fact that he was real aggressive about not voting being virtuous, while holding up his own more-or-less-nothing level of activism as what he needed to get credit for instead, that made me bring it up.

explicitly for anarchists to talk with other anarchists, tried to pick a argument with them, got banned, and then made a post on a different sublemmy that is exclusively for "I want to complain about getting banned from a sublemmy"

And a whole bunch of people including several anarchists went "what the fuck, yeah that's messed up, it is very un-anarchist to start to police what people can and can't say because a lot of people are issuing wrongthink and we need to correct that." I was far from the only person that got banned.

Also, the person who banned me was doing heavy electoral promotion of one side of the political election. I talk about it in one of those comments (maybe search for "profile" to find it). They were actually doing what you are claiming here that I was doing.

Anyway, the main point was, you asked me for examples. Here are my examples. If you don't like them, then okay.

uhhh...so like one line of my previous reply was about how it seemed like you were salty about a random Lemmy moderator banning you almost a year ago.

but holy shit

if Uma Thurman's "the Bride" character from Kill Bill were real, she'd tell you that holding on to grudges like this isn't healthy

Anyway, the main point was, you asked me for examples. Here are my examples. If you don’t like them, then okay.

yeah uhh thanks, the next time I ask someone for an example like this I'll make sure to clarify up-front that I'm looking for examples that don't center around "I have a blood feud with them because of an internet forum moderation dispute but also I dislike their politics"

[-] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago

"Not these examples! These don't count! I want some other examples!"

this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2025
83 points (100.0% liked)

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