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thrown away animal-based food
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2025
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Vegan
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An online space for the vegans of Lemmy.
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- We take for granted that if you engage in this community, you understand that veganism is about the animals. You either are vegan for the animals, or you are not (this is not to say that discussions about climate/environment/health are not allowed, of course)
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Veganism is the belief that non-human animal pain and suffering is as valid as human pain and suffering, that the right to exercise their own will is a right for all animals. It's not some vibe based "communing with nature" or whatever it's about animal liberation. The reason vegans seem so combative is because there's a principled stance behind it and not just "i think animals are really cute I could nevar!!"
I don't care for your support for "veganism". It means jack and I spit on supposed allies that still are part of the baby killing machine. Their cheers mean nothing if they don't stop killing newborns, worse than nothing they think it absolves them somehow??
I also don't care about your opinions on how to convince others to become vegan when you can't even convince yourself. I know how I got convinced and it wasn't people hemming and hawing about the animal genocide but centering the non-human animals and keeping the focus on them.
I understand your anger and impatience, I feel it too. Still I believe this attitude is not helping. Yeah, some omnis need a little push sometime, to challenge their ideology. But this is a little too much, in my humble opinion. You're giving them an excellent excuse to just leave.
I don't care about outreach in this case. This is a vegan comm where a vegan is asking a question to other vegans and yet this carnist thinks he gets to have an opinion? I mean look at this idiot:
No clue but yapping anyway. This is a problem with the predominantly white carnist cis men in this app who think they can just come and go into any space at any time as they please because that's how it's been for them their whole life. They think that they can Just Ask Questions and others are obliged to debate them in a polite and restrained manner so that they may "educate themselves" or whatever. It's not just a problem in vegan comms, but in female only comms, trans comms etc. And if they aren't shown the door in a resolute manner they will return with their uninformed, braindead opinions instead of shutting up and reading before writing.
Edit: what really ticked me off is this notion of "ally to vegans" as it completely deplatforms the animals. It's not just congratulatory to the vegan as if they're being extraordinarily virtuous and denying themselves a luxury like some ascetic, but self congratulary as if some of that virtuosity might be bestowed upon the carnist excusing their "transgressions" by "allying" with the vegans. As if not wanting to kill, maim or otherwise subjugate thinking, feeling creatures is a good deed and not just the absence of evil. Being a vegan does not make you good, but not being a vegan makes you evil.
Yes, it feels like being used for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
oops. Just noticed you quoted that, rather than saying it. Sorry :)
Yeah and the idiot I'm quoting is still arguing about it 🤣
congratulations you just explained why I basically said its not vegan in a traditional sense, and what OP is thinking about is closer to a sect in vegetarianism. unless you read my intitial post in a completely different way as I kind of explicitly said it isnt veganism.
It doesnt require a vegan to say what OP is saying is not vegan
your definition by the way isn't completely vegan either. as veganism includes not eating any byproduct of an animal, so milk and honey for example, are not vegan, despite it not necessarily doing physical pain and suffering to the animal.
Okay... but what about the male calves? Does a bolt to the head or a knife to the throat at a few hours, days, or weeks old not cause suffering to the animal?
the odd assumption you guys are making is you assumed i was talking about a commercial sense. do you not see the conclusions you automatically jumped to without me having not mentioned a single thing about farming involved in the situation.
unless you believe in the ghastly picture that male calves all roam wild with bolts on their head and knoves at their throat.
no ones defending commecialization farming of animals. not even myself.
you do know how a cow has milk, right? She's pregnant or just given birth. They're not gonna let the calf drink the milk, because that milk is for us. Whether that's on a factory farm, or whether that's on a farm where the farmer "cares" about his animals. (protip: he doesn't)
I don't know why you cut out the other half of the sentence as it answers the rest of your post basically:
There is no ethical slavery no matter how "well" the slaves are treated. That's why even if it were possible to extract milk from a cow in a completely painless manner the fact that they are property is already at odds with being vegan.
As for your assertion that milk and honey don't cause physical pain and suffering to the animal
A bit more of a visual guide:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250403130922/https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/403444/dairy-industry-cow-life-milk-america
Or just straight up look at the gore yourself:
https://watchdominion.org/
This is exactly why I said that "you have no insight to offer" and "evidently don’t know the first thing about veganism". You have no idea how true that is because you don't even know what you dont know.
We got a carnist in here saying stupid shit, can we get a cleanup crew
Done
Youre such a terrific moron, like the archetype of a carnist.
A: you refuse to read, here is what I wrote to address that
B: you have to insist on hypotheticals that are at best some edge cases but aren't really relevant to daily consumption.
Even if it were possible to extract milk painlessly (it isn't) and it were possible to do so in an ethical manner (another nonstarter) the fact is that this isn't happening. Why insist on arguing about something that isn't real, but some imagined world where you make the rules how you want? Arguing about spherical cows in a frictionless vacuum is not really relevant in our day-to-day lives.
C: you refuse to read the material you are being spoonfed.
It simply isn't possible to extract milk painlessly and the material I linked explains why. I'd like to see you argue how you would impregnate a cow, get rid of her baby so you can have the milk for yourself in a painless manner. Keeping in mind that being able to control her life in such a manner already is not vegan.
D: you don't consider what actual vegans say.
I already answered this here https://lemmy.ml/comment/21393729 and most other vegans seem to, more or less, agree.
not really. It's very easy "are the animals property or free?". When in doubt ask yourself "what if it were a human?" and there then is your answer.
Most of my vegan friends would disagree with you, but you're welcome to believe what you would like.
aw thanks thats very generous 😊 btw I don't speak like this irl because of the repercussions I might face. I certainly think it, but whenever someone talks about being half-vegan or how they "simply couldn't without cheese" I crack a smile remain polite and remind myself to choose my battles. I absolutely want to let loose on them but I don't. The more self-congratulatory, the more polite I become to exit the conversation asap.