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Liberals: "Yea TAKE THAT TANKIES!!!"
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2025
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i really don't understand all these people on .ml (who clearly aren't chinese) bootlicking for china
look, i'm a "communist" as well... i hate capitalism, blah blah blah... you guys are right about so many things. china is great, the west fucking sucks. i 100% agree...
but i don't understand why it has to extend to, "ALL criticism of china is invalid"... china has a clear objective of unifying the nation and the culture. and that means pushing out the non-han minorities such as the uyghur people.
is this achieved through extreme violence? of course not. that's barbaric and not-subtle.
china knows how to play the long game. decades if needed. the west doesn't see anything beyond a 4 year election cycle...
There is good criticism of China, but the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it's the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most. They armed seperatists and radicalized them in order to foment a block in the Belt and Road Initiative. The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China's NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
so just because reactionaries/anti-communists are pushing the narrative to support their own ends makes the issue fake/invalid?
so if neo-nazis started supporting palestinians to push an anti-semitic agenda, that makes their oppression fake/invalid?
lol, again...100% non-chinese telling us how great it is over there (for non-han minorities). how do i know most of you aren't even chinese?? ZERO actual chinese people, even the most woke ones, announce their preferred pronouns...
i'd love to see all you "they/them" folks try actually living in china....
btw, not making fun of pronouns... i support... i'm just pointing out the irony....
Neo-Nazis aren't really supporting Palestinians, and moreover there is ample evidence of Palestinian genocide while there's very little evidence of a supposed genocide in Xinjiang. The Xinjiang atrocity campaign is being used the same way as Saddam's supposed WMD, which also had little to no actual evidence.
Secondly, some Chinese do list their pronouns on English sites, but moreover I can support the combatting of western atrocity propaganda while also believing China has a long way to go on LGBTQIA+ rights. I consider myself cis, I list "they" as an alternative because I know some people don't want to be referred to as "they/them." I prefer he/him in most cases, but am okay with being referred to as they/them, while others certainly aren't.
Right now you're doing the bit where Zionists say queer people shouldn't support Palestine because groups like Hamas are anti-LGBTQIA+. The wheel of social progress moves faster when not being killed at scale, and we can see improving LGBTQIA+ rights in China over time.
again, nobody is saying china is doing an israel genocide on uyghurs..... read the original meme post.... it says oppression
why do you believe this? i heard that china is amazing at supporting gay/trans people... anything else you heard is just reactionary, anti-communist, western propaganda.... you see how that works?
no, i'm doing the bit where a bunch of woke white people are strangely acting like china has zero credible criticisms.... while also strangely admitting that china has a long way to go on LBGTQIA+ rights
Clearly you can see that my point is that some criticism is real and some is not, right? I'm not "strangely" admitting anything, I'm acknowledging real critique while pointing out that some critique is not genuine. There are people saying China is doing to Xinjiang what Israel is doing to Palestine. They are wrong, of course, but acting like they don't exist is silly.
Critiquing China based on real issues is good. "Critiquing" China based on exaggerations and atrocity propaganda is bad. LGBTQIA+ rights fall into the former category, the overwhelming majority of allegations surrounding Xinjiang fall into the latter. This is in no way contradictory.
no, it's really not clear what the criteria is for real criticism, vs. not real... seems pretty arbitrary when looking at two very prominent examples of china oppressing cultural/ethic minorities
i still don't understand why you think that oppression of LGBT is real, and oppression of uyghurs is exaggeration and propaganda... why is it so OBVIOUS to you that the uyghurs are flourishing, but LGBT people are actually being oppressed?
i KNOW actual uyghur people and i KNOW at least one actual gay person in china... i am chinese and i have family there... i don't understand how weird internet white knights can wave away the hardships of one group as OBVIOUSLY FAKE (despite likely having never spoken to an actual uyghur person, or even someone from another muslim minority in china), while just arbitrarily believing that china oppresses LGBT people?
by your logic, there are openly gay chinese youtubers who haven't been executed yet... therefore, there is no oppression and it's just western propaganda warping your view of china.
the uyghurs i know are not rich people who fled the country and hate china because communism took away their stuff (that would be my taiwanese relatives who DID lose all their bourgeoisie privilege to the communists...) why would they be making shit up about what is happening over there? and why would you be so inclined to dismiss what they have to say just to white knight for china?
Because I don't trust anecdotes from individuals. I've spoken with people that think Trump is a communist. I haven't spoken to your friends, and I don't know what specifically it is that you're arguing, because you've been vague. I've been clear in stating that China isn't committing genocide against Uyghurs or trying to push out ethnic minorities, and that's true, but you've been far more vague about what it is that you're trying to argue.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective's Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.
I also recommend reading the UN report and China's response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.
Tourists go to Xinjiang all the time. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn't going to be a comprehensive view of course. I don't know if you've been to Urumqi, or Xinjiang in general, but this is another way that we can see what's actually going on.
The ideas pushed by the west, ie mass sterilization, an erasure of Uyghur culture and language, mass killings of Uyghurs, etc are nearly entirely devoid of evidence.
[proceeds to trust some random patreon website and some youtube travel influencers....]
anyway. it was a fun afternoon of earning capitalist value tokens while pretending to add value at work… thanks all for the discussion
The west doesn't care about the Chinese or muslims but we are supposed to believe they care about Chinese muslims. Please let me know how many countries with a minority (Uyghur muslims as the example here) population have their languages on their currency and actively promotes their culture significantly (like drawing in tourism), skyrocketing of HDI and then gets accused of whatever you are doing here.
The thing with the neither Washington nor Beijing schtick is that it is tantamount support of western atrocity propaganda; you want to believe Western lies as you have already decided on a hierarchy of human beings and denigrate those who stand against Western imperialism. If you know you have been lied to about every Western Designated Enemy since WWII but choose to believe current ones then you ain't brainwashed, just bigoted.
You do realize that you can check the sources compiled by Qiao Collective, right? I also referenced the UN and PRC. The travel influencer bit was an addendum, not the core focus
No. Complete lack of evidence that can withstand even the slightest scrutiny makes the issue fake/invalid.
That’s a lot of words to avoid saying “I believe China is committing genocide because they are doing ____”.
You have a friend over there but haven’t said what their experience is. You have said genocide doesn’t have to look like Israel but haven’t specified how it applies to China from your perspective. Make a claim.
it's a family i know here, who left china due to oppression... nobody said anything about violent genocide.
i really don't need to type out their whole family situation because why waste my time getting instantly downvoted? you've all already decided that talking to uyghurs is fake news....
I mean, it’s just the entire crux of your argument. I’m also not the same person you’ve been talking to. All I did was ask you to make a claim instead of vagueposting about the definition of genocides being pretty wide and getting on a soapbox. It’s hard to have discussions when you refuse to communicate about the topic, but rather delve into meta-commentary as soon as you’re asked for any details that have brought you to your conclusion.
the claim is right there in the OP's meme... "...china is oppressing uyghurs". i don't know why you keep demanding "claims" when it's right in the meme that i was responding to.
the meme suggests that the only evidence comes from some fucker named adrian, whom i've never heard of, and RFA and falun gong.
i merely suggested that first hand accounts from my friends might actually be valid.... maybe at least something to think about.... but apparently listening to actual uyghur people and talking to my actual family in china is western propaganda... so discussion is already non-starter
anyway. it was a fun afternoon of earning capitalist value tokens while pretending to add value at work... thanks all for the discussion
I love how you unquoted “evidence” in the original meme. I just wanted to know how the people you know were affected, and every message you send that avoids that screams “I totally have a girlfriend but she lives in another country and she doesn’t like her picture taken, but trust me, she definitely exists”
The burden of proof is in you. Make a claim