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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago

Biden is why we have Trump. Hillary is why we have Trump.

Jill "I couldn't get more than 1% of the vote" Stein isn't why we have Trump.

People blaming greens for the failure of the Democrats to campaign to their voters is why we have Trump.

[-] alekwithak@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

Jill "I emerge from my hibernation once every four years to siphon off votes from the Dems" Stein certainly isn't helping, though.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

Ahh yes. The votes that Democrats are owed.

A number so high it would round to zero, 0.4% of the vote.

You are doing the thing which caused the Democrats to lose the election, here now.

[-] Saapas@piefed.zip 4 points 2 months ago

They didn't say those were owed to anyone. Just that they're being siphoned off

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[-] theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 months ago

I hate this argument and this is coming from someone who dislikes Jill Stein she is doing things participating and organizing protests and so on constantly, you can argue their ineffective and they aren't covered often in the media but she is factually doing things.

[-] ChokingHazard@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Jill Stien is a Russian backed spoiler candidate only shows up every 4 years to pull votes.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Then don't vote for her.

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[-] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 2 months ago

At least some of the hard r's I once knew back then, blue collar old timers in the factory, supported Bernie. When he was not the one running, guess who they voted for.

It was the biggest mistake.

In related news, I saw today what year other countries implemented universal healthcare... My jaw dropped as I saw many dates listed long before I was even born.

I'm so sad.

[-] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Solid Rs is probably better than hard Rs. Was wondering why the hell you were throwing around a slur for a hot second. Either the R word or N word.

[-] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

The context works, but you're very right, I changed it from it's traditional meaning use in my sentence

I don't even want to give validation to the party name, it's not correct. Solid r's is a good idea, and maybe I should have said that. Should I change it? I don't mean no harm except to the traitors. As I think of it though, solid as an adjective has a neutral/positive connotation. Gonna need somthing with a negative connotation, no?

[-] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

She’s a spoiler. That’s why she only bothers to run in battleground states.

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[-] starik@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 months ago

She certainly tried to help get Trump elected. Just because she’s ineffective doesn’t make her not a piece of shit.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Your doing the thing which caused Democrats to lose the election to Trump.

[-] starik@lemmy.zip -1 points 2 months ago

Wait, I thought they represented “less than 1% of the vote” and therefore don’t matter. But Democrats’ failure to pander to them cost them the election too? I’m confused.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Every voter you blame for the failure of the Democrats to do the literally measliest effort to court their own base is two voters you've cost us in the next election. If you blame greens, your doing 3x damage to the future prospects of Democrats.

You are doing actual fucking damage in the effort to stop fascism when you blame voters instead of the party. If you did it during the last election cycle, you literally paved the way for Trump to come into power.

[-] starik@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

Let me also say, you are right that blaming specific groups of voters is not a good campaign strategy. I’m not suggesting we go knock on doors and berate people who identify as leftist but refuse to vote for Democrats. Of course it’s better to try and persuade them.

That being said, I can personally come to the conclusion that 2024 was in part their fault, and it does no harm to tell the truth on an obscure web forum that maybe 100 people will read.

[-] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Trump won because he talked about the shit folk cared about (economy and jobs). He was lying obviously, but Dems had a more decent candidate and put nothing forward. You have to say what you'll do, not what you won't. Dems priority is keeping a moderate grip on selections. They stiffed Bernie and got through coronation of Harris.

Any reasonable candidate and message and they'd win. See Mamdani for more information.

But surely they'll have a good candidate for next election because they learned right? Yeah no. The DNC seems focussed on ROI for their donors.

Saying that, I'd still vote for them, but this whole blame voters is BS. It won't change people's minds. Just remind them that the rank and file as well as the leadership are toxic and reinforce in those people's heads that they made the correct choice. Telling people they're wrong is the worst way to persuade people. It gets folks backs up, and they'll stubbornly argue green is orange. It's effectively campaigning for the Republicans.

Folk need to understand psychology if they want to be a political activist. Without it, the risk of self-gratification and self-validation is the only achievement.

[-] starik@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago

It’s impossible for any party to appeal to a majority of voters on everything. If Democrats could have done something to be more appealing to greens than Stein was, then whatever that something was would have turned off some other segment of the coalition, possible losing net votes. Winning a national election requires broad appeal, and being the only viable non-fascist, pro-democracy ticket should have been reason enough for any decent person to vote for the Democratic candidate. I don’t know what these greens want, but not living in a Christo-fascist hellhole is apparently not a high priority for them. Fuck them to hell.

[-] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago

Non-fascist? What was their line on Palestine again? Tutting and selling more weapons?

They didn't even have policy that appealed to most. They had policy appealed to their donors and it's really naive if you cannot see that.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago

The Democrats' general stance on Israel is appalling, but that does not equate to fascism.

[-] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

Who said it does?

I was responding to a comment that naively implied Dems policy applied to not upsetting majority of voters, like it was purely middle of the road acceptable stuff. It is not, and we shouldn't pretend it is.

[-] starik@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago

Agreed, Democratic leadership’s stance on Israel was/is out of step with the majority of the base. Also, that does not make them fascist, as you implied.

I don’t know how to make this simpler. The two major parties in our country are different. Republicans are much worse than Democrats. Your life and the lives of those you care about will be worse if you vote for Republicans, third party, or don’t vote. These are indisputable facts, and it is frustrating that so many people who should understand them do not.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago

Democrats are not pro democracy nor non fascist.

[-] starik@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 months ago

This is a good example of the type of (nominally leftist) person who is essentially unpersuadable. How are you supposed to convince these guys to vote when they don’t see a meaningful difference between MAGA and normie Democrats? They don’t live in reality.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago

I'm actually leftist. people who don't believe what I said are the ones who are not living in reality

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2025
269 points (93.8% liked)

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