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US seeks to use Alberta to destabilize Canada
(www.lemonde.fr)
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From the outside looking in, conservatives in Canada seem to follow along with MAGA on a lot of culture war issues. However, I would think the separation would make it easier to see what's going on in the US and give at least some of them pause. You'd have to be a special kind of person to see what's happening and think "that is exactly what I want for my country".
So Canadians of Lemmy, what do you think? Are conservative Albertans that far gone?
Don’t underestimate the stupidity of racists. That’s how we got Trump and co.
Stupidity is not contained solely to Alberta.
It’s not, but it sure seems to be pretty saturated there.
Nah that"d be Ontario. At least we get very close to electing NDP here.
Tell me about it. Here we’ve got the Separatist party spouting on about how the United States would treat the culture more fairly. Having only a few months ago having the US trying to water down the language laws for trade.
Opportunistic cunts is what they are.
No, but this article is, so I'm not sure what your point is
That there are plenty of 51st state, Trump loving conservatives across this country, that we were only a few hundred votes here and there away from having a Trump-loving wannabe as prime minister, and that pointing the finger at one province just because their leader is a Nazi-loving fascist piece of shit is ignoring the larger problem in this country.
Fair enough, but like I said, I'm just trying to discuss this specific article which is only concerned with Alberta.
I've lived most of my life in Alberta, in both rural and urban centers.
It's actually a pretty long story, politically, to understand how we went from Klien to Smith.
The short version is that the old conservatives stalled in direction after achieving the goal of eliminating all provincial debt.
They (the party) finally found a purpose, independently (and predating) Trump, of simply using Ottawa as a foil. For everything.
I genuinely believe Smith's US podcasts likening PP to Trump were designed to HURT PP. A Conservative federal government would be a political disaster provincially. They have no plan. They have no playbook. They ONLY have the "stand up to liberal Ottawa" drum to bang, and they lose that if the liberals aren't in power anymore.
It isn't HARD to find Albertans that say they want to separate. But, they're not anywhere NEAR common enough that a referendum could ever actually find a majority in favour. It's not anywhere near as popular of an idea as Quebec separation in the 90s.
And OF the Albertans that want to separate, they're envisioning a country of our own, not becoming a US state. And, as foolish as a notion that it is, I think a good number of supporters recognize the reality that they could end up getting annexed by the US.
Trump's behaviour on the world stage overall hurts the proposition of Albertan separation. There is a reason pro-separation organizers are trying to distance themselves from Trump. It's a liability to thier goals. If there was no other measure than that to evaluate what separatist Albertans about Trump statistically (always will be individuals otherwise), that should be enough to answer that.
Are conservative Albertans that far gone? Considering Albertan conservatives as a contiguous block is nonsense to start with.
The vast majority of Albertans would self identify as "conservative" (small "c"), and yet 1000 flipped votes in the last election would have put (ANOTHER) NDP government in place. A great number of Albertan small "c" conservatives don't vote conservative provincially because they just refuse to acknowledge the overton window shift. Smith (or Kenny) isn't offering anything but "blame Ottawa". It's BARELY enough to get a slim majority. It's not meaningfully compelling on the grand scale.
Speaking of Overton window shifts, Carney and Harper from a policy perspective are pretty damned similar.
Will Alberta separate? No. Simply, no. Regardless of what interference Trump brings.
Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate your contribution to the discussion.
I think our experiences of politics in our respective countries are pretty similar. I live in the only US state that borders Alberta. Our state politics are much less MAGA like than the national politics, there's a certain amount of disdain for DC here no matter who is in charge there, but discourse has still been dominated by conservatives of late. They do have trouble getting all of the national party's talking points to fully take root with many here though.
I don't mean to pivot to discussing the US. I just brought it up as a way to say that I think I understand your description of the situation in Alberta. I hope you guys continue to have better luck keeping the crazy at bay than we have. I watched Carney's speech in Davos and I thought he laid out a solid vision of a path forward for Canada. Do you think it was well received in Alberta?
It was well received, by AB standards. The provincial government didn't bash it (and considering it's thier ONLY tool, they understood it was well recieved and it was off-limits). A few old conservatives came out of the woodwork to say "put down your personal political views for a minute and watch the speech", which was essentially an endorsement.
The west is bound to begrudge the east because of lack of representation/voice. East coast politics rule both our countries even though we are both coast to coast. Population density factors in to it certainly but nearness to the body politic has a role there too.
Conservatism lost a lot of steam in Canada when Trump was elected and his promises started taking shape. They realized it wasn't just rhetoric , they were looking to break down democracy. Even our poor people get a decent education and understand that is a dark road to travel. I don't think they'll cede their sovereignty but who knows? Their premier is bought and paid for by the same people as Trump, but their constituents are Canadian and proud of it. They'll fight a propaganda war, but I don't think they'll win many victories.
How many people with educational degrees vote conservative?
That might mean something.
you'd be surprised. I know a lot of highly educated people who have sunk into the "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE" mindset and support the cons because AXE THE TAX etc.
Fuck.....the number of people who just eat that pathetically low IQ verb the noun thing up....
I really wish I could just verb them in the noun.
But if it rhymes it must be true!
These stood up to scrutiny in kindergarten so it must also apply to serious political policies in adulthood, no?
A percentage of them certainly are.
It’s worth noting that separatist conservative Albertans are a vocal minority in Alberta.
The only thing giving these individuals any credence right now is the fact that the current premier supports them… which has likely left her unelectable, so she’s trying to force a secession vote before she’s forced to call an election.
Excellent points