Edited title. Sorry folks I do not have a week early access to the season finale.
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I love the show, just hate how it shits on new Vegas. Could've just set it in Oregon or something. Really can't help but feel
has a grudge against that game.
A nuke a la Megaton destroys the entire NCR, which is somehow just a village?^[Its basically the size of the crimson caravan camp or camp McCarran in the game. The nuking of the one village is implied to completely destroy the entirety of the NCR.]
The Kings get ghouled and gutted. Caesars legion (also she corrects them to the wrong pronunciation I think?) is two tiny camps.
The factions don't function as what they represent, so why not just replace them with your own raiders and local government that would give you more creative freedom? That is what they have practically done anyway. Hard for me to feel it isn't out of spite that it was decided to destroy non-bethesda fallout.
Meanwhile the brotherhood of steel just has dozens of airships around.
I like the show, I dont like how it handles vegas.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Todd-aligned hate for 1/2 and NV, but I think mainly there is a creative black hole in the middle of the fallout universe that prevents ever getting past the piles of dust and bones wasteland and they will always just reset every setting to that so they don't have to think about world building or keeping canon as much
It's so incredibly frustrating because that was something both fallout 2 and New Vegas moved on from. People rebuild, of course they do. Even fallout 1 has early signs of civilisation coming back, the epilogue makes it clear. 200 years later and you still walk into houses full of dusty skeletons? No. And New Vegas shows how that is so much more interesting than what Fallout 3 or 4 does.
There's a better timeline where Fallout New Vegas got a bit longer in development. Got a higher review score. Obsidian got paid their bonus.
Then Bethesda after making Fallout 4 gave Obsidian time, that engine and all the clean pre war/institute/vault etc assets to make another west coast game.
Really something that showed the difference between the post post apocalypse society and the chaos of the new frontier.
I think about how Obsidian had to use ruined trucks at camp mccaran as stand-ins for their functional one they were meant to have in the lore.
New Vegas made it pretty clear that the NCR was kinda on its last legs, adn that the corruption in it was pretty rampant. Nuking their capitol is hardly just a village. The game also made it clear about a dozen times through as many characters that the Legion was not long for this world after Caesar's death. Despite all his horseshit about hegelian dialectics it's a cult of personality.
They also make it clear at the end of season one that the NCR isn't gone, it's just ragged as fuck and forced underground. There's still people in the ruins of Shady Sands. Thaddeus says he's from the Boneyard, which is part of the NCR but probably doing as shitty as it's ever been without the capitol to provide trade and military support and such. People act like they're slaughtering sacred cows but honestly what they're doing here is no less radical than the possible endings in New Vegas itself.
Also it's pretty heavily implied that the BoS is the canon ending for Fallout 4 seeing as the Commonwealth faction is the dominant one and they've clearly been able to produce more Prydwen-type ships, probably with captured Institute technology.
I figured someone would respond with something like this, and I considered writing in expectation, but I was lazy.
The issue isn't that these factions have collapsed. It's why they collapsed, what remains of them and what has happened since. I hope my tone in this comment isn't harsh, it's not meant to be. It's just tv, its just for fun and I enjoy these kinds of discussions^[most of the time. I can get too invested when things get heated, but that's not enjoyable, that's just a bad habit. I hope we both assume the best of the other], so I hope this is received as us just talking shop about slop.
I agree, but what was depicted was just a village. Even if it was shown to be a metropolis, it still wouldn't make sense. If California was it's own post-post-apocalyptic nation-state, then bombing Los Angeles wouldn't destroy it, even if it was struggling logistically. The game spends a lot of time detailing the many factions within the NCR and their interests. They don't disappear just because the government is in a crisis, nor if the government disappears. The new world capitalists like the Brahmin barons and the caravan companies don't just go away.
Army Centers, logistics hubs, supplies and so forth do not just disappear, which is what has happened practically. Even if the NCR somehow was destroyed by nuking what is, at best, a suburb, then that still doesn't mean it goes into thin air.
The game also touches on this with Lonesome Road, where you are given the option of nuking the factions. It's made clear this will cripple them, stop them from expanding, perhaps force a reconsideration of method, but not just wave a magic wand that makes them go away.
Likewise the game makes it clear Caesar's legion will splinter with Caesar. I don't mind that. I do mind that the massive nationstate is reduced into two tiny camps that border each other. Practically that is what can be shown, maybe, but narratively too? That is my issue.
The NCR is shown in-game to be struggling massively yes. It is also shown to be massive.
The creators of the show manage to show and consider this scale when it deals with the BoS, but it goes completely out the window with any New Vegas faction. That is my frustration.
I can see what the narrative does with the destruction of these factions and appreciate that, but I don't see anything that makes these factions into anything recognisable from the game - beyond aesthetics - which is why I am wondering why they didn't just make up their own new-world government/raider faction if that's what they wanted.
That confusion ties into my general frustration with Bethesda-fallout that seems to have a hard time making new things and letting go^[DEAD MONEY REFERENCE? POG. YEAH ITS ABOUT LETTING GO. LETTING GO OF POVERTY] of the old.
Edit: added footnotes and a little extra in the end
double edit: Gonna go back and watch this ranger vs BoS fanimation to cope I was looking for a specific edit of it but what the hell. Also here's Caesar getting looney toons'd
I for one was delighted to read all the discussion my post sparked. I will definitely be making a thread for the finale.
I think an interesting thing was missing here though. House worked with vault tec and the US government which became The Enclave. So what was the fallout between House and The Enclave that puts them at odds over the NCR?
This assumes them working together on certain projects means they are aligned in their goals. Look at the real world and see how often governments and other governments or governments and NGOs/corporations cooperate on one project whilst working against each other on another.
House worked with Vault Tec and the government because it was in his interest. If he felt the NCR threatened his interests he'd probably decide to work against them. In New Vegas he wants the NCR stable enough to function sort of how the US functions for China - As a consumer to whom one can offload extra capacity and extract wealth.
I do not know why he'd want to nuke the NCR though, it doesn't make sense. So either it wasn't him or it's bad writing or a good reason will show itself.
Right but then my question still remains and I agree a reason will likely be revealed. But why would The Enclave do it? Attempting to reassert themselves maybe but they clearly didn't. Hank didn't do it because he wasn't outside yet.
Nuke Shady Sands? It's shown that Hank is the one that facilitates it
https://youtu.be/rbhYXrS_0Hg
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Not that this disproves the BoS Fo4 ending but I don't think the extra Airships weren produced by the Commonwealth chapter, the other chapters (Yosemite, Coronado etc) already had them before the meeting so I think it implies they've had them for a while and that they weren't built by the Commonwealth chapter then distributed to the other chapters they've had limited contact and not the best relations with, since its only been 9 years between Fo4 and the show and each chapter seems like they'd horde any new airships rather than give them to tenuous allies, it's more likely they were built sometime in 200 years post-war when the BoS was more cohesive and at a higher stage of power
I am 1000% in the camp of bethesda slopworks resenting Obsidian but i think the more boring answer is that the #1 Games salesman is not in control rather zenimax or microsoft or whoever that probably saps the creative flow out of BS’s projects before they even start
I don't imagine Todd has much direct say (writing too good for that) but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some demand about resetting the wasteland/not advancing the setting, which does lead to the need to destroy centralised governments, if they are depicted.
My headcanon is there is still a rump NCR up North with the Vault 13/Arroyo city, New Reno, Vault City, San Francisco etc it's just contracted with the new capital being nuked. I'm sure someone will turn and face the camera and disprove this though.
Episode 8 will end with Todd Howard showing up in power Armor. The power Armor has a tele-tubbies tv-screen-stomach, which shows a video of a vault-dweller from vault 101 elbow dropping Jeffrey Epstein. Todd Howard then says "that was The Lone Wanderer killing the Courier. Also we're remastering Skyrim" and then I will get called a neckbeard for being annoyed that the best piece of Fallout since New Vegas needs to shit in new Vegas for no good reason.
It will be well-acted and choreograped though.
Godd Howard isn't capable of petty mortal grudges, recant this accusation at once.
I'll recant it if it turns out they're just doing the Dust-ending or Elijah shows up and makes out with the ghoul.