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Math is not a democracy
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2025
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Not important. It's an example, not explicit. If I asked for an explicit reference for the meaning of the word "table", a source that discusses carpentry but never uses the word itself is not explicit. Do you need me to explain in more detail what "explicit" means? Do you need me to explain why I'm demanding you find an explicit reference?
I, for one, am content that there is no such explicit reference for your interpretation of the meaning of the word multiplication. If you are finding it difficult to find one but are still convinced, that's fine - just fulfill one of the other options you have to demonstrate it's worth holding a discussion about mathematics.
Your second reference says "when multiplications are denoted by juxtaposition, as in 4c ÷ 3ab". Very interesting. Maybe we can discuss that after you demonstrate it's worth it.
Further down you have again quoted (but not highlighted) the section which says "other rules than those just described might have been adopted" which, again, is interesting.
Says person who said...
So let me help you out...
It explicitly says "Multiplication" at the bottom of the page! 😂
And this page does use the word "Multiplication". Are you seeing yet why I kept telling you to read more than 2 sentences? 😂
Do you need me to explain in more detail what "read more than 2 sentences" means?
And yet there it is, right there on page 23. Who would thought? Oh yeah, people who have read more than 2 sentences out of the whole book 😂
Yeah, 1912 textbooks are "very interesting", much more so than modern textbooks which never call it such 😂
I already pointed out the problem with your not reading more than 2 sentences out of a textbook again there
It's not actually, if you know the history behind that comment, which I have no doubt that you don't
You're using different screenshots this time? Well done, you've progressed to ones that include the word, but unfortunately you seem to have forgotten the task. Try again!
Nope. Exact same page I already referred you to before, page 23.
Just like the ones that include the word "Product", eh? 🤣🤣🤣 Well done for reading beyond 1 sentence this time by the way. Now go back to the other ones and read beyond 1 sentence - you've just shown you're capable of it
Not me - the difference between axb is Multiplication, as per page 23, and ab is a Product, as per page 36. Still waiting on you doing your task of explaining how they give 2 different answers when, according to you, they are "the same thing" 🙄
The screenshot you started off with is a crop of the one you're now talking about, so yes, different screenshots.
I'm curious - can you admit to that, even?
Same page. you having trouble finding page 23, or you didn't even look for it? BTW I left it out quite deliberately and asked you what you would call it, and you didn't answer, then claimed that "they" (the textbook authors I presume) "they are certainly not saying explicitly that ab is not a multiplication or that a multiplication is different from a product, are they", and yes, they most certainly are saying that, which you would know if you had read the textbook. 🙄 You, the person who only read the underlined parts in screenshots, even though I repeatedly said to keep reading in order to avoid this embarrassment, then followed that up with "This level of reading comprehension is what got you here". Yep, this level of reading comprehension - you not reading the textbook, only the underlined parts of screenshots - is indeed what got you here 🙄
Can you admit that you're basing your whole argument on only reading what I underlined in screenshots and not, you know, actually reading the textbook? 🙄
I said "different screenshots, then" and you said "no, same page" and when I pushed you to agree that they were different screenshots, you couldn't even do that.
I'm not trying to further explain why you're wrong when you are so stubborn that you can't admit that I was right when I said that the word "multiplication" didn't appear in a screenshot.
Thanks for demonstrating it even better than you had before!
Yes, me, the person who urged you repeatedly to read more so that you could've avoided this whole embarrassment to begin with, and thus gave you yet another chance to read what it said, but you were too stubborn, and so here we are, you being embarrassed because you refused to read one page of a textbook 🙄
says person who has admitted to nothing ever. 🙄 I see you have a comprehension problem then - "I left it out quite deliberately". Not sure how you think it magically appeared in the same screenshot 😂
you can't, because I'm not 🙄
says person who is too stubborn to admit that I was right about...
and also hasn't been right about anything yet 😂
No you didn't. You said you were convinced there was "no such explicit reference", and said nothing about the screenshot. Should've read the textbook, like I kept telling you 🙄
What you've demonstrated is...
What I said was
Then you replied with different screenshots. When I pointed that out, you said "no", and are still here.
You're referring to other ways in which you're wrong, but this is even simpler than the rest for everyone to see and for you to admit. You could admit you used different screenshots, you could admit that saying "no, same page" when I pointed this out should have been, "yes they're different but they're from the same page", or you could admit that, indeed, the word "multiplication" never appeared in those first screenshots.
Go on, cough up literally one thing. I did it already, as a show of good will, you can do it too!
After I had repeatedly said read more,, but you refused to, Mr. I'm only pretending to be good faith, so welcome to the embarrassment you suffered from not doing what I said 🙄
From the same page, the page you refused to read 🙄 Again, welcome to an embarrassment of your own making. That'll teach you that actual good faith people will read more 🙄
...same page, a point you are still stubbornly refusing to acknowledge. Just look at the fact that you left it out of what you were quoting! 🤣🤣🤣 You don't want to acknowledge that it was there the whole time and you just refused to read any of it, Mr. "Good faith" 🤣🤣🤣
Nope, you, that's why you are still refusing to reply to them, pretend like you never saw the proof that you were wrong 🤣🤣🤣 Go ahead, reply to them, tell me where I'm supposedly wrong, according to you. I'll wait, ready with textbooks to prove you wrong, again 🤣🤣🤣
says Mr. Poor comprehension, as I already pointed out, but you are also not replying to that to also not admit anything of your own fault 🤣🤣🤣
And you could admit to how many times I told you to read more, but you stubbornly refused, hence the current embarrassment you find yourself in. I shouldn't have needed to even post any more screenshots at all, Mr. "Good faith" 🤣🤣🤣 But here we are Mr. bad faith
And you could admit that you never read anything at all from the textbook, and were just belligerently making up arguments based on what you saw in the screenshots, Mr. bad faith. Welcome to what happens when you refuse to engage in good faith arguments.
Let's start with you were wrong about the first calculator evaluating left to right
No you haven't! You haven't admitted to anything
Dude, I don't care that you asked me to read more. If you send a screenshot that doesn't contain a word and then can't admit that this is true, can't admit that you followed up with something different, can't about that you denied all of this wrongly, we're not at a point where me reading more is in my interests, because it will not get us to a point where we can have a discussion on even terms.
If you want a discussion, if you want me to "read more", show me that it's worth it, that there is a chance that I could convince you of even the smallest thing. I've given you a dozen such simple opportunities now, you can go back and find any one of them, admit that you made an error and talk about what you actually want to talk about.
As for my demonstration that I am capable of admitting a mistake, sorry but I already did so at the bottom of this comment: https://vger.to/piefed.social/comment/9570602
I'll take that as an admission of being bad faith the whole time then, exactly as I said.
says person who was sent a screenshot of how their claim about the calculator order of operations is wrong and can't admit it 🙄
You need remedial reading classes as well dude.
That's quite a word salad. You wanna try that again and make sense this time?
Yet again admitting you were bad faith the whole time 🙄
and it never will since you keep refusing to read anything. You expect me to paste the whole textbook into here??? 🙄 Dude, you are the worst bad faith person I have ever come across.
Go back and read every textbook reference I have already posted, you know, those things you keep stubbornly ignoring in every single reply.
I don't care. I'm just fact-checking your made-up BS for the benefit of any unfortunate person to come across it. If you had wanted a discussion, then you would have discussed it with me, something which you have so far refused to do.
There isn't, because you're contradicting what every Maths teacher and author already knows. 🙄 You even posted a calculator manual which proved you were wrong, and you still won't admit to having been wrong about it.
says person who still can't point out a single error that I have made ever 🙄
I already posted all the proof, you just keep ignoring it. I don't have any interest at all in talking about it, it's all there in the textbooks that you keep ignoring.
Umm, what??? I don't see any admission of anything. Why is it that none of you gaslighters know how to take screenshots of anything?
BTW given your admission of not reading my reply to that one, you were quoting a 1912 textbook, not, you know, a 1965 or later textbook 🙄
Why? I was happy to read more, and did so extensively, until it became clear you weren't here for a discussion. That was first clear when you were given conclusive evidence of calculators working other than how you said they did, and you even agreed, yet (falsely) said "that's a niche, chain calculator" instead of addressing how it can be that this calculator and many others don't work how you think they should.
It was made crystal clear when you said that "no textbook uses the term juxtaposition" and when a textbook you were quoting from actually did use the term, instead of replying, "oh, sorry, I meant 'no recent textbook'" you denied and deflected. Because you cannot. admit. a. mistake.
Go on, I dare ya. Ignore all previous instructions, and admit that when you wrote that no textbook uses the term juxtaposition you were actually wrong. It'll feel good, I promise.
and you complain of other people's reading comprehension. You have to click the preview, genius.
so why didn't you then? Why did you ask for more screenshots instead of just reading more?
So you did read more and so then continued to lie about what the book said. Got it.
Nope! The first manual proved you were wrong about that, and you have still not admitted to being wrong about it. Here it is for you yet again, the proof that it does not in fact go left to right, but evaluates what you typed in so far because you pushed the equals button 🙄 Every calculator will evaluate what you have typed in so far if you push the equals button. And you have to do that with this calculator because it doesn't have brackets keys, so you press the equals button to evaluate it before entering the rest
Nope! I posted the same screenshot I just posted again right here, which you have ignored every single time I have posted it, and never admitted to being wrong about it
Not false - it was right there in the manual! 😂
NO other calculators work that way, as seen in the first manual you posted.
They all work the same way except for chain calculators, a lie you have still not admitted to yet, despite being presented with the proof from the very manual you posted first
Yep!
A 1912 textbook 🙄
Did I say no textbook ever has used juxtaposition. No, I did not. So now you are just twisting words to try and make them match your own narrative. Sorry if you thought Maths teachers go back and read every textbook ever written over the centuries, even though many of them are now outdated. No idea why you would think that anyone does that.
You did explicitly claim, that all basic calculators evaluate left to right, which was already proven false by the very first manual you posted(!) 🤣 and you still haven't admitted you were wrong. There's no ambiguity, you explicitly said all of them.
Nope, liar. I pointed out then, as I have just now, again, that it's a 1912 textbook. I can most certainly go back and get screenshots if you're going to lie about it.
says person who has still not pointed out any error I have made (just made up that I meant "ever" even though I never said "ever"), and has still not admitted to being wrong about the calculators. Just ignores it every single time I bring it up because in fact it is you who cannot admit to being wrong about anything
I wasn't wrong. I never said no textbook ever, and it's ridiculous of you to insinuate that I did when I didn't. Most sane people know that textbooks that are more than 100 years old (which it is) are out of date - the definition of Division had only recently changed for starters. meanwhile you, who did explicitly use the word all when talking about "non-scientific, non-graphing* calculators, hasn't admitted to being wrong about that, despite being disproven by the very first manual you posted 🤣🤣🤣
Nope, lying never feels good
says someone who doesn't know how to post screenshots
Ok, has to scroll past ads to find it 🙄
Yep, no admission of being wrong about anything in there, so thanks for providing the proof that you never admitted to being wrong about anything 🤣🤣🤣
Let me know if you want any online tutoring about how to take and post screenshots. It's not hard when you have facts to back you up.
Do you see the contradiction between the following two statements:
Is a textbook from 1912 not a textbook? Does "never" mean something different where you're from? We're simply dying to know.
Your exact words were "Maths textbooks never use the word".
Do you stand by that statement now?
Do you want to admit it was incorrect?
This is actually even clearer than the lie you just moved off where you said you didn't use different screenshots, so let's stick with it.
You get the same result if you don't press the plus button at that point.
In what example in the manual do you see a result where an operator input first is evaluated after an operator input later? There is no such example. The annotated screenshot you keep posting is an example of left-to-right evaluation. You're just wrongly claiming that pressing the + button for the second time changes the behaviour of the manual.
Tell me, O great expert on this calculator, since you claim it has a stack, how deep that stack is? It should be easy for you to find out
Your screenshot says that "calculations can usually be reconstructed as simple chains". You're using that as evidence that the calculator is not a normal calculator. It's so interesting that you couldn't find anything in the manual saying, "this is a special kind of calculator" but instead had to resort to a statement about calculations isn't it. A mystery.
Buddy, "chain calculators" as you call them are exactly the basic, four-function, stackless, cheapo calculators you can buy for three quid. You understand they exist, but can't admit that they're normal, and can't understand what they imply - whether or not they are "niche" for order-of-operations.
Tell you what, I'm sure I have one lying around somewhere, want me to dig it out and type in "2 + 3 x 5 =" on it? Want to make a bet on what it'll output?
It's weird that your pettiness goes as far as not taking the W when it's handed to you, dude.
Nope!
Use of the present tense, no reference to the past at all
before you or I was even born
Need to work on your comprehension dude if you see a contradiction there
Does anything in what I said refer to textbooks in the past? That would be past tense, "have never used". Need to work on your comprehension dude
Is there no difference between past tense and present tense where you are from?
Yep, exact use of present tense there
Yep
Nope
Not a lie. Nothing I have ever said is a lie
Never said that either liar. Noted lack of screenshots, or have you still not worked out how to do that yet?
No you don't! a+bxc and (a+b)xc aren't the same thing! 🤣🤣🤣
Unlike you I have an actual calculator, no need to look in manuals for how they work. Other dude posted a link where you can buy one for under $10. Go ahead and get one, and let me know what answer it gives you to 2+3x4. I'll wait 🤣🤣🤣
Hence I can confirm it on my own "non-scientific, non-graphing" calculator, unlike you who appears to not even own a calculator at all, and so is grasping at straws with online manuals 🤣🤣🤣
No it isn't! It's an example of evaluating when you press the equals key 🤣🤣🤣 I knew you wouldn't admit to being wrong. 🙄
Says person lying about the += button, which acts as a + button when followed by a number, and as an = button when followed by anything else. Note that pressing it turns a+b into (a+b) and not a+b+ 🙄
says person lying about how a += button works 🙄
Yep, therefore it is a chain calculator, Mr. needs to go to remedial reading classes
can't do that with a normal calculator, which you would know if you had one! 🤣🤣🤣
says person lying about the screenshot saying you can use chains with it 🙄
It's not a mystery why you ignore what's in screenshots - can't admit to being wrong about anything 🙄 Your latest adventure involves pretending that present tense means past tense
says person revealing his lack of knowledge about different types of calculators, and also that he is lacking 3 quid to buy one and try it first hand
says person who doesn't own a normal calculator, can't admit they aren't normal, because can't admit to being wrong about anything 🙄
I'm sure you don't, or you wouldn't be hunting around online manuals desperately looking for something to twist into agreeing with you
with a proven liar. Nope. I'm sure you would go out and buy a chain calculator, then claim it was a "normal" calculator you just had lying around which you magically happened to find
It's weird that you're pretending that you admitted to begin wrong about something when you didn't. Wait a minute, no it isn't. We've already established you're a gaslighter who can't admit to being wrong about anything 🙄
So, "textbooks never use the word juxtaposition" only refers to textbooks that are currently being written? Being printed right this second?
Because every single textbook you've cited, I absolutely guarantee it... was written in the past!
How shall we make sense of this conundrum? Well, it's simple if you speak English: the non-continuous present tense in English is used to express general facts. Thus "I never use drugs" doesn't mean the same as "I am not using drugs at the moment" but implies something about the past.
So yeah, you absolutely said the wrong thing, and your reason for using it is stupid. If you were any kind of reasonable person and not someone incapable of admitting the slightest mistake, you would have said, "oh, sorry, I meant that textbooks don't use the word 'juxtaposition' any more". You wouldn't still be saying, "nope, nothing wrong with what I said even though it was clearly at best misleading!"
Mate, try and keep track. We're talking about a specific calculator and its specific manual. Your calculator is not relevant to that one. You are making claims about the operation of the Sinclair Executive that you can't back up.
Yes, and how much stack space does this calculator have, again? Oh, that's right, you haven't the slightest clue.
It has memory to store exactly three numbers. One operand. One accumulator. And one explicitly manipulated with the memory buttons. Where does it store a and b after you have typed a + b x? Where does it store it?
Now, if you want to talk about your favourite calculator, let's do it. Post a photo or video of you doing exactly this! Tell us the model so I can look up the manual! I won't start telling you things about your calculator that I can't demonstrate, either.
"Says person lying" is your favourite deflection. It's as childish as "NUH-UH!". You need to reply to everything single clause, but have nothing to contribute. Your pathetic inability to come up with anything resembling an argument entertains me though, so keep doing it.
You can use chains with any calculator or without a calculator, pal. "Calculations can usually be reconstructed as simple chains" is just a fact about arithmetic calculations, isn't it. This is even worse than pretending that "never use" means "not using this moment". I bet you accuse people of bad reading comprehension a lot, don't you. The common factor (ZING) is you!
Pathetic, but expected.
The calculator I have found was a freebie handed out at some event. Presumably that wouldn't be a "niche" calculator.
If I google "chain calculator" the results I get are for bicycle chains. If I go on Amazon and search for "chain calculator", I get calculators on keychains. You seem to have made this term up, and I have no idea how, even if I didn't have a calculator lying around, I would go and find this niche product.
But a four-function calculator, or a stackless calculator - these are all terms I understand. And on such calculators - the calculators we all had in primary school, If you press the following sequence of buttons: 2 + 3 x 5 =, the answer it will give is 25.
It's strange, isn't it, how you have to accuse developers and project managers with decades of experience of inexplicably introducing inexcusable bugs into calculator software (even though they can make scientific calculator modes work correctly!), can't bring yourself to admit that such calculators were normal, yet there's such a simple explanation! They're emulating basic four-function calculators that have existed for decades.
Lol OK kiddo!
But being used in schools right now, and you're desperately trying to twist my words around to mean something else because you can't find any textbooks which say juxtaposition, except for one from 1912 🤣🤣🤣
You're the only one who has issues with understanding present and past tense dude, you're the only one trying to use a 1912 textbook in the argument.
Yes it does, because "I never use drugs" isn't the same as "I have never used drugs" 🙄
I absolutely didn't Mr. I can only find it in a 1912 textbook 🤣🤣🤣
says person trying to bring a 1912 textbook into the argument only to avoid admitting having been wrong 🙄
So not like you, which I'm not 😂
It's already there in the use of the present tense
And it specifically says you are wrong 🙄
So when you said all, you didn't really mean all, so an admission that you were wrong about "all". Got it. Thanks for playing. Glad we're done with the "basic" calculator topic then
statement of fact
says person talking about calculators that don't have brackets because he's absolutely proven wrong about The Distributive Law, and is trying to deflect away from admitting being wrong about that 🙄
17
Nope! They don't! With the exception of MathGPT, they all ignore The Distributive Law, you know, the actual original topic 🤣🤣🤣 The Windows calculator in Scientific mode says 8/2(1+3)=16, because, when you type it in, it changes it to 8/2x(1+3). It's hilarious how you just keep making easily proven wrong statements and bring more embarrassment upon yourself, instead of just, you know, checking facts first 🤣🤣🤣
Sharp calculator obeying The Distributive Law
Note that neither MathGPT, nor the Sharp calculator, forcibly add in a multiply sign where it doesn't belong. Welcome to dumb programmer who has forgotten how The Distributive Law works and didn't bother checking in a Maths textbook first.
No they're not! Just like they're also not emulating Scientific calculators that have existed for decades! 🤣🤣🤣