I don't see NATO wading into Ukraine wanting to torture and kill people.
NATO waded into Afghanistan and Iraq and killed two million civilians. NATO is funding and participating in an ongoing genocide. They've killed many, many more. Guantanamo Bay is an illegal torture facility, there are undoubtedly hundreds more we haven't heard of. The downfall of its hegemony would see the lives of millions of people saved globally.
Russian peace means russian torture chambers and mobile crematoriums for Ukranian opposition. Followed by generations of autocracy.
What makes you say that? You must understand that's a cartoonishly unreal accusation, right? Yeah, Russian democracy sucks, but no moreso than Ukrainian or most Western democracies.
Fighting for the re-conquering and oppression of the eastern half of Ukraine (i.e. DPR and LPR) will not be a happy outcome for a lot of people either.
Not denying the role of NATO member states in the conflicts you mention, and the existence of Guantanamo is wrong.
But, mobile crematoriums and the russian police to feed them were in the first wave of invaders headed for Kyiv in 2022. Torture chambers are well documented.
Elections under the russian boot are neither free nor fair for obvious reasons. Western democracies aren't great and especially not the US lately, but there are a lot fewer people flying out of windows for political reasons.
The IWPR is based in Washington D.C., the U.K., and the Netherlands, and seems to be especially concerned about manufacturing consent for backing the Banderite regime in Kiev, and supporting the ovethrow of socialism and Chavismo in Venezuela.
I appreciate we can agree on the NATO wrongdoings, that's cool, thank you.
I'm not saying Russia never tortured or cremated anybody. Every party to this conflict has done that in the droves. But it's disingenuous to imply that peace under Russia means exceptional mass torture and death squads. "Peace" before Russia invaded was 8 years of civil war where Ukraine killed its own civilians with artillery every day.
Elections under the Ukrainian boot are no good either. Democratic parties were (and are) frequently made illegal on spurious grounds, corruption is rife, heck, the elected president got ruddy coup'd not that long ago. We certainly hear of more publicised political killings in Russia than in the west, what the truth is I don't know, but I think the chasm in difference of democratic 'quality' is not that great.
NATO waded into Afghanistan and Iraq and killed two million civilians. NATO is funding and participating in an ongoing genocide. They've killed many, many more. Guantanamo Bay is an illegal torture facility, there are undoubtedly hundreds more we haven't heard of. The downfall of its hegemony would see the lives of millions of people saved globally.
What makes you say that? You must understand that's a cartoonishly unreal accusation, right? Yeah, Russian democracy sucks, but no moreso than Ukrainian or most Western democracies.
Fighting for the re-conquering and oppression of the eastern half of Ukraine (i.e. DPR and LPR) will not be a happy outcome for a lot of people either.
Not denying the role of NATO member states in the conflicts you mention, and the existence of Guantanamo is wrong.
But, mobile crematoriums and the russian police to feed them were in the first wave of invaders headed for Kyiv in 2022. Torture chambers are well documented.
Elections under the russian boot are neither free nor fair for obvious reasons. Western democracies aren't great and especially not the US lately, but there are a lot fewer people flying out of windows for political reasons.
The IWPR is based in Washington D.C., the U.K., and the Netherlands, and seems to be especially concerned about manufacturing consent for backing the Banderite regime in Kiev, and supporting the ovethrow of socialism and Chavismo in Venezuela.
so no torture then huh? going to have to do better than that.
The burden of proof is on you, all I was doing was contextualizing what you posted.
but some Ukrainian girl wrote a text about it, it's legit for sure. her name has 5 pages of google results, and almost all of them are from 2025.
Oh, most definitely real then!
I appreciate we can agree on the NATO wrongdoings, that's cool, thank you.
I'm not saying Russia never tortured or cremated anybody. Every party to this conflict has done that in the droves. But it's disingenuous to imply that peace under Russia means exceptional mass torture and death squads. "Peace" before Russia invaded was 8 years of civil war where Ukraine killed its own civilians with artillery every day.
Elections under the Ukrainian boot are no good either. Democratic parties were (and are) frequently made illegal on spurious grounds, corruption is rife, heck, the elected president got ruddy coup'd not that long ago. We certainly hear of more publicised political killings in Russia than in the west, what the truth is I don't know, but I think the chasm in difference of democratic 'quality' is not that great.
And fighting to the last Ukrainian helps... How exactly?