73
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
73 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13558 readers
684 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
Edit: I ended up using this comment as an excuse to infodump but I tried not to do the whole thing where, by infodumping, I am implying that this knowledge is uncommon or that the person I’m responding to is ignorant of it. And it appears that I’ve explained the idea of a leitmotif to a theater kid. My bad, Othello. I just like explaining things. Love your stuff
It’s pretty wild what facts needed to be left out or minimized to make this come across. Being playing by LMM instead of a white guy is a big part, obviously, but the whole idea that he was an “immigrant from the Caribbean” does a lot of heavy lifting there, too.
He was the grandson of wealthy merchants on one side and of Scottish nobility on the other. He was seen as lower status because he was born in the colonies and out of wedlock, but he was very much a colonizer. And his “immigration” was moving from one British colony to another and British colony. He received a decade of private education and tutoring before his mother died and it was that education that he used to be able to go to New York with the purpose of continuing his education.
For anyone who’s not super familiar with musical theater, it tends to make heavy use of callback, reprise, and theme to tie together disparate ideas. If you don’t know what that means, think of the happy music that plays in the beginning of Up. When that same music plays near the end of the opening sequence and that makes you wanna cry? It’s not just because it’s sad. It’s because the music juxtaposes the sadness of the moment with the happiness and hope they’d just lost. It’s that kind of thing.
Hamilton has stuff like this all over and is pretty tightly woven, but there are some dropped threads where you would expect some kind of callback and we just don’t get any. The reason? There were several more songs about opposition to slavery that were dropped because they didn’t play well in the test showings.
Hamilton is truly a story of oppression, as packaged for the privileged masses.
HAMILTON DISCOOOORSE!!!!! WOOOOOOOO
youre new but i see you! some good takes.
for starters let me get sentimental and sincere. as a child with a parent from the Caribbean i 100% saw myself in hamilton as a teen.(wrote my way out meant a lot to me) I related to the character extremely hard being a black loudmouthed demsoc at the time. no one believed in me and i saw hamilton as an inspiration. I was also determined to burn my name into the face of the world. this musical has heart and come from an immigrant perspective (not a black one mind you). and while people in this comment section deride the musical for being "for white people" the people who love the musical the deepest, who make fan art and analyze every song tend to be young queer and black people, and people of color. its good. its meaningful. but its liberal and launders the reputations of evil people. at the end of the day the musical is strangled buy it inablility to meaningfully critique its subjects.
So all those thing you laid out yes but I was referring specificity to when jonh adams calls him "a creole bastard" and yes there were always rumors he had a lil black in him but those were mostly insults to ruin his reputation.
do not site the deep magic to me witch i was there when it was written if many of the scrapped songs were left in the musical would have been very different and thematically constant. It would have been much improved I agree but it wasn't so we have to judge the final product as is. and the musical doesn't center black voices, at no point do we hear a black characters perspective, they are only background characters and political tools. and yes they take a lot of time to say slavery bad but they dont show it. especially since black people (and some queer people) played a huge part of the revolutionary war. its hallow, sweeps the seriousness of the subject under the rug with a quick wave. also sooooo many songs from the second half of the show should have been cut in favor of what did get cut, test audiences be damned.
oh noo you deleted it! you want me to delete this one?
No need to delete it. I put mine back up. I’m just having a weird day and was getting in my head about coming off as annoying.
I also got very into Hamilton for a while, to the point where I was writing out maps of various motifs that came up and itemizing where they were and what that did to the meaning. I think my window into Hamilton was through neurodivergence, of people looking at you like you’re crazy and being simultaneously condescending about your forwardness and obsessiveness but also in awe of a lot of your output and endurance. That said, I keep finding examples of ways that perspective falls short, so I appreciate you being sincere and sharing that.
youre not annoying I promise! do you know how refreshing it is to be able to take a critical look at hamilton with another leftist whos actually willing to analyze its themes??? youre wonderful, never change.
yes yes yes!!! a 100% see that. in fact
When I got sort of out of sorts with a buddy of yours
I may have punched him
It's a blur, sir
He handles the financials?
You punched the bursar?
Yes! I wanted to do what you did, graduate in two, then join the revolution
He looked at me like I was stupid, I'm not stupid
So how'd you do it? How'd you graduate so fast?
It was my parents' dying wish before they passed
You're an orphan? Of course!
I'm an orphan, God, I wish there was a war
Then we could prove that we're worth more than anyone bargained for