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xkcd #3214: Electric Vehicles
(imgs.xkcd.com)
Title text:
Now that I've finally gotten an electric vehicle, I'm never going back to an acoustic one.
Transcript:
Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com
Source: https://xkcd.com/3214/
As an EV owner, I have recieved an interesting amount of reasons why people won't buy them:
After this, they usually proceed to make absurd claims like "I don't care, I just don't trust EVs.
I wonder how many of those would not apply to hybrid cars.
Also, for 8: Making car go by burning fuel in a big optimised plant is likely more efficient than doing it in an engine that has to fit inside the car.
Another point to add for 9, all the EV parts can be recycled. The metal body is recycled in to new cars and battery components are also recycled in to new batteries.
Relevant technology connections video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM
If it helps, my EV technically has a manual transmission. 100% of gear shifts are manual (it only has a single reduction gear).
I feel like some of those points are slightly more valid in rural areas (especially in the US, where a power pole being knocked over means that the power is out for hours) where the people making those points are more likely to have grown up. Then again if you are not in a rural point of the united states you are less likely to need a car.
If I lived in rural US where the power is not guaranteed I would install PV and use my car as a power backup.
That sounds rather expensive (if PV is photovoltaic). And I was not aware that cars were built to supply power like that.
Yeah, I meant photovoltaic with PV. At least in Europe it's gotten really cheap.
There are mutiple ways to use the energy that is stored in electric cards. There's "Vehicle to Load" (V2L) for plugging appliances directly into the car, "Vehicle to Home" (V2H) for connecting your home to the car and "Vehicle to grid" for connecting the car to the power grid and selling the stored energy.
"Vehicle to load" is also useful when going camping or when you need power when there's no outlet near you. You just need a car that supports it and a small adapter.
In America it's gotten cheap too. You can buy panels at harbor freight these days
From what I've been told by people I know irl (in Germany) that have a house it would have been over thousand euros just for the power connection.
To me who has neither a house nor a car, a solar panel sounds like a lot of money. Getting them used probably isn't good either?
The power connectors for cars sound cool.
With point 2 you can now use a real life case. Last year the Iberian peninsula had a blackout that lasted more than a day. The combustion engine cars could not pump petrol because guess what: pumps need electricity.
Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.
I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.
Update: Yes they are. Needed to update my data. Used EVs aren’t expensive trash any more. Some of them are actually quite reasonable.
slightly used EVs are cheap as chips in NA. I don't get people who whine about car prices then only buy new cars.
Did some quick market research and the numbers are in.
If your only drive in good weather in a city, you can get an EV for about 5 k€. If your country has snow and ice enabled, you’ll need to spend about 12 k€, but that’s still tolerable.
It’s not that expensive after all. Used to be pretty absurd a few years ago. Next, I’ll just need to figure out how to charge an EV. I’ll probably need to move to a newer building first.
Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that's ignoring that it needs no maintenance.
I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?
I bought a used hybrid in 2020 when gas was cheap. It's already 100% paid for itself.
People are morons and don't do the 5 year math on what a vehicle costs to run.
Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder. Buying a used EV is probably my best bet in about 5-10 years from now.
Specific cost of ownership (as in €/m) is what actually matters in the end, but most people ignore it. Usually people just compare gasoline and electricity prices and draw their conclusions based on that. That sort of analysis is not going to give you a very reliable picture.
Regardless, if I had the money to drive a BMW, buying an EV would be a simple decision. Who cares about the purchase price, ongoing expenses or depreciation when you have that much money. Since I’m not in that market segment, EVs aren’t really a viable option for me just yet.
TCO is even better for electric. Near zero maintenance. The depreciation is real, but only if you plan to sell it at it's half life. If you plan to hold it a long time, depreciation evens out.
My EV is ten years old and cost $30k. It's paid for itself twice over in just gas. More if I factor in the zero maintenance (not totally zero. I changed the tires a few times and had to replace a trunk component). The resale on it is about $8k lower than an equivalent ICE. But for me, the EV was a good deal.
I'd definitely recommend getting a used one though. I bought mine new, and that makes the numbers worse.
It’s not though, or it is currently. It wasn’t too many years ago that teslas kept their value more than any other car. I’d argue this is a temporary market condition that is only valid for decisions now but is not predictably valid
I lean the other way. I think Tesla valuation was artificially hyped and manipulated. The car's valuation was luxury priced and tied to Elons personality. And that tanked. So I personally don't think that was normal or ever coming back.
I think the current conditions are also abnormal, with EV becoming political and a horse running amok in the white house.
The normal depreciation is probably in the middle. But when are things ever normal anymore?
Yeah normal seems to have taken a vacation
In either case it’s all tied to supply and demand. When teslas kept their value it was because huge growth they couldn’t keep up with. Now their value used is horrible but a big part of that is demand dropped, so they can make too many.
And yes it is not a good thing that in both cases too much was driven by a personality.
Personally I’m annoyed because teslas still are the most compelling EV available to me, but they always had the shadow of over-hype and now they’re toxic
In practical terms, maintenance used to be a bottleneck. Didn’t know if it still is. If you always need to go to Tesla for maintenance, it’s going to get ridiculously expensive.
And then there’s the philosophical side. Who wants to drive a car associated with filth like Elon.
Other than that, getting a used Tesla could be nice.
I think that's a quirk of Tesla trying to preserve market share by aggressively cutting prices of their new models over the past 5 years, which naturally puts pressure on all used models on the road. I don't think that can last.
If EV manufacturers are racing to compete on price, then the new EVs will get cheaper faster to where EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles new. And if the EV manufacturers stop cutting prices, then that will alleviate that depreciation pressure.
My reason for not buying an EV: it's still a fucking car. Bit less shit, but still shit.
That should be Number 1 Reason to not buy an EV!
It sounds crazy, but I'd sit and wait the five minutes, much like I've done for pumps on occasion.
My argument: When I can get a decent used EV for $5k, I'll do it. Until then, I'll just get a decent used ICE car for $5K.
I always thought this was one of the reasons for an EV incentive. Encourage more people like me to buy the expensive ones sooner to develop the market, guaranteed demand for manufacturers, but that also gets us faster to the point of cheap used EVs
Haven’t seen anything decent at that price. You’ll be fine as long as you just drive in a city and keep the temperature of your car reasonable. If not, you’ll need to spend at least twice as much to get something decent.
The prices coming down though. We’re actually pretty close tolerable prices right now.
For a lot of people it’s number 7 and I mean, that’s sad
1 is real though, and it can be a pain
There’s also the case where some areas are isolated and there’s no charger nearby and that can be a pain, and yea, that’s not a good spot to be in
Finally, if you can’t charge at home, you’re not really going to save on electricity price compared to fuel, so that’s not the best purchase, and it might be a pain to charge frequently outside if you have an cheap car that charges slowly
In the worst case scenario (very high KWh price), charging is almost the same price for the same distance. In the best case (at home) is 10x cheaper.
This might actually be true, I think I misremember my calculations but I know I compared it some time ago, and realized it was way cheaper at home, and comparing the prices I pay outside and those, it might very well be the case
2: I wonder what those people think a gas pump runs on?
If there is no electricity, then those won't pump either.
My reason: the hybrid I have is still working fine and a new car and a new car won't be in my budget for the next 10 years or so. Also iirc about 33% of the energy a typical car will ever use is spend on its production, so it's better for the environment to use a car until it breaks down.
that's completely fine. If your car works, you shouldn't throw it away, that is wasteful.
Very much similar to my own experience. The blackout is the funniest, because gas stations don't work in a blackout, while solar panels do (assuming you disconnect them from the grid).
I would add one:
The only somewhat valid use case for "driving 1.000km without a stop" would be several people in the car taking turns on the driver's seat. While you'd technically need to stop to switch drivers this in itself is way quicker than even a quick charge on paper.
BUT: considering traffic jams, speed limits and such - a 1.000km trip would take around 10+ hours anyway. You're not going to tell me that you do not even stop to pee or stretch a bit for 10+ hours, do you?
While growing up my family once a year would take a 20 hour car trip to visit extended family for a couple weeks then 20 hours back. Parents would do five hour shifts and get the whole thing done in one go. Shift changes meant refuel, bathroom, that's it. Other than that there was no stopping unless it was a "the next bump in the road I will 100% shit myself" kind of an emergency
Now personally I'd argue maybe we shouldn't have been taking road trips in that manner because it's like putting your body through a meat grinder. But if trips like that are someone's goal I doubt there are many charging stations in the middle of absolutely nowhere that can fully charge an EV in the time it takes to pee. I'm hoping though maybe a shift to EVs will change the way people approach long road trips to actually force them to take breaks