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How 'Active Clubs' use male bonding, fitness and other healthy activities as a trojan horse for extremism (rachelgilmore.substack.com)

submitted 3 days ago by Sunshine@piefed.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] SimpleMath@piefed.ca 5 points 2 days ago

They also claim to be persecuted for their hobbies. I think they have some personal issues that makes them feel persecuted all the time. I have a friend like that, it's exhausting. Everyone really likes him but he thinks they don't. I think it's just internalized hatred.

I tried to talk to him about the way he talks about women. "You say things like women behave like this, or all women are like that, or I won't have women on my boat anymore because they don't listen". To which he complained I called him a piece of shit and that I obviously hate him. "I love you dude, it's harming your relationships and making your life harder, it's a thing you can work on, all you have to do is hear what I'm saying."

He can't do that though. He's just always already on edge because he constantly feels like he's being judged and he still doesn't realize the judging is coming from inside the house.

[-] AskewLord@piefed.social -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Or I'm used to dealing with twats who lecture me about myself who know nothing about me.

Like you. You know nothing about me, and yet you've created this elaborate fiction in your mind about my psychology, my past, and a bunch of other shit.

You are the type of person I'm talking about who gets up in others faces and lectures them about how 'wrong' based on a few random tidbits about them. I make a claim, and you now make it your mission to create an elaborate fictional story about me to discredit me. Just like the idiots who scream at me at uni who 'KNEW' that I was evil because I had white skin and a penis.

Maybe you should be the one shuts up and listens to people's stories and stops trying to discredit them because they don't fit your political agenda. Perhaps you should learn some grace and humility toward other human beings instead of chomping at the bit when they try to articulate that the people you hate are just as human as you, instead of pathologizing them as hopeless damaged until they espouse whatever BS you think is 'right' and 'healthy'.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

You've come into this thread by making pretty inflammatory statements. When asked to explain, you provided a very barebones anecdote about how someone told you you were evil because you have a white penis. Others chimed in saying that this has never happened to them, despite also being owners of a white penis.

Instead of clarifying and providing more context, you've stuck to the very basic story, with zero details or context. Since the story sounds quite unlikely, this naturally casts suspicion on you, as it sounds like crucial details are left out. We're supposed to believe fairly extraordinary claims here, which usually requires at least some kind of evidence, or at least believable context.

So I don't think you should be surprised that when you accuse people of treating you poorly because you have a white penis, you're going to receive some pushback. And I don't think you can reasonably claim that that pushback is somehow evidence of people hating you because of the colour of your member.

[-] AskewLord@piefed.social 0 points 1 day ago

And all of what you said is a complete mischaracterization of my comments, to the point it seems you lack a basic comprehension of the English language.

I do understand. I understand that acknowledging the problematic behavior of leftists an their rhetoric, and how alienating it is to men, is not allowed because ti upsets the narrative that leftism is only ever good, and that the far right is only ever evil.

The far-right wins men over because it meets them where they are, and acknowledges the negativity in the world directed at them, and uses it to funnel them into the far-right. And they will win and win and win more over, until the left starts trying to acknowledge the legitimacy of their experiences and concerns, instead of engaging in a complete denial of them as being entirely dismiss-able based on their race and sex.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

You said, and I'm quoting here:

I spent 3 years in uni being screamed at, in my face often, about how awful I was for being white and working class guy. Glad you didn't have that experience? But plenty of men do. But it was really hard not to become totally alienated by that. A few times I was threatened physically, because I 'don't look leftist', whatever the fuck that means. I still occasionally have some nutbags approach me and scream at me about my perceived politics based on how I look.

You're being challenged on this because the vast majority of white working class guys simply don't have this experience whatsoever. This whole "leftists screaming at your face"-thing seems to be pretty uniquely happening to you, not white men in general.

So this does beg the question: why do you have this experience when other white guys in this thread don't? You've immediately resorted to blaming leftists in general, but since others don't share your perception of leftists you're simply not very convincing.

It's like arguing that the far-right grows because the left shits on the street; nobody else seems to have seen this so people end up questioning your sincerity here.

[-] AskewLord@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

So you speak for the vast majority of working class white guys? Interesting.

The irony also being, the vast majority of working class white guys, don't go to college, let alone elite colleges.

Elite colleges where the far left ideologies that lemmyites adore, were created and established from which they spread.

Just because people don't see something personally or directly, is a shitty way of evaluating other people. I've never seen a woman be raped. Does that mean rape doesn't happen? That's the logic you keep employing.

Or maybe I understand that rape happens, because I've been raped... no! men don't get raped! that can't be! You must be a liar because most men don't get raped!

I'm blaming shitty people who hide behind their ideology because they think it's fool proof and perfect and wonderful. When it in fact, it's shit. It's the same stinky shit as the far-right, just inverted. Far right hates women, far left hates men. Far right hate immigrants, far left hates native citizens. and so on and so on. Anytime you argue with a far right nutjob, or a far left nutjob, they make the same arguments and resort to the same tactics of character assassination.

The far right grows because it reaches out to people. The far left basically sits around smelling it's own farts and claims they are all geniuses and they should never have to ever interact with non-leftists because they are all dirty and gross and wonders why more people aren't on their side.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

So you speak for the vast majority of working class white guys? Interesting.

I am merely making an observation in this thread, where so far your claims have been met with incredulity.

Elite colleges where the far left ideologies that lemmyites adore, were created and established from which they spread.

Left-wing ideology is famously a working-class ideology. Progressivism has taken hold in colleges, but leftism isn't a guarantee: just look at many conservative politicians who often graduated from the most elite schools (the Tories in the UK are often accused of being too "Eton-centered" for example).

Just because people don't see something personally or directly, is a shitty way of evaluating other people. I've never seen a woman be raped. Does that mean rape doesn't happen? That's the logic you keep employing.

But there are plenty of documented cases of rape happening. Lots of people know someone who was either sexually assaulted or raped. There's a lot of knowledge on how rapists behave and how rape happens. But this isn't the case for leftists accusing someone of being a bad person, for merely being white and working-class.

What is more commonly known is that people victimizing themselves online tend to understate their own role in a conflict, or leave out critical details that paint the context in a different light. Take the various YePowerTrippingBastards communities: it happens quite often that someone leaves out crucial details that significantly undermine the story they're telling.

This is why you're being met with severe skepticism. You're making some inflammatory accusations (leftists physically accosting people for being white and working-class), without evidence nor context, based on supposed repeat personal encounters. And I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I am trying to explain why you're unlikely to be believed here. You also don't exactly paint yourself as an impartial participant when you make statements saying the left "hates men" and "hates native citizens".

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago

I respect your willingness to defend yourself in here. I think your position is one that could be valuable to people on lemmy who are willing to listen.