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Individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), including those who otherwise require less support, face severe difficulties in everyday social interactions. Research in this area has primarily focused on identifying the cognitive and neurological differences that contribute to these social impairments, but social interaction by definition involves more than one person and social difficulties may arise not just from people with ASD themselves, but also from the perceptions, judgments, and social decisions made by those around them. Here, across three studies, we find that first impressions of individuals with ASD made from thin slices of real-world social behavior by typically-developing observers are not only far less favorable across a range of trait judgments compared to controls, but also are associated with reduced intentions to pursue social interaction. These patterns are remarkably robust, occur within seconds, do not change with increased exposure, and persist across both child and adult age groups. However, these biases disappear when impressions are based on conversational content lacking audio-visual cues, suggesting that style, not substance, drives negative impressions of ASD. Collectively, these findings advocate for a broader perspective of social difficulties in ASD that considers both the individual’s impairments and the biases of potential social partners.

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[-] ByteFoolish@hexbear.net 54 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The amount of "aspie supremacy" in this thread with zero push back is concerning to me. Allistic people aren't inherently immoral and autistic people aren't inherently moral and pure. I'm far too frequently hurt and misunderstood by non-autistic people and desperately wish things weren't this way, but viewing people with this lens is harmful to everyone. That mindset discourages autistics from trying to form relationships with the vast majority of society and makes mass organizing effectively out of the question

The research itself is a bit depressing but it sounds like it may align with work done by autistic researchers on the double empathy problem

[-] PowerLurker@hexbear.net 20 points 4 days ago

yeah i was bedtime scrolling last night and had to tap out when i came across this thread, i'm ND (and so is my partner and a ton of my close friends) and this thread made me deeply uncomfortable. a lot of people on this site just have a deep resentment for humanity that is incompatible with socialism. i understand wanting to give space for people to vent about oppression & to be vigilant against fragile/defensive reactions to that venting, but there is a line that's often crossed into outright self-superior misanthropy that is antithetical to any kind of real liberation.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 33 points 4 days ago

I saw this before seeing most of the rest of the thread and holy shit, I figured there'd be some awful takes but it's so much worse. Like basically eugenicist shit and then the top reply is "actually, they're even more inferior than you think".

Maybe this less common context is a good opportunity to consider the vicious moralism and worldviews that are less concerned with making the world a better place or learning how to constructively talk with people and just being reduced to an absolute seething hatred of [social majority] that gravitates toward whatever vapid rhetoric lets one vent the most bile. It's the "ideology" of someone who has given up on socialism in any real sense and just wants to either feel superior in their corner or genuinely hurt people for the sake of revenge.

I know exactly what reply I'm going to get from at least one user, so stay tuned!

[-] PowerLurker@hexbear.net 14 points 4 days ago

Maybe this less common context is a good opportunity to consider the vicious moralism and worldviews that are less concerned with making the world a better place or learning how to constructively talk with people and just being reduced to an absolute seething hatred of [social majority] that gravitates toward whatever vapid rhetoric lets one vent the most bile. It's the "ideology" of someone who has given up on socialism in any real sense and just wants to either feel superior in their corner or genuinely hurt people for the sake of revenge.

unfortunately this seems to be the entrenched ethos of the site at this point. i generally stay out of conflicts around identity politics, but since this is an axis of oppression i do actually face (i am ND) i thought it would be a good opportunity to support your point against this tendency. socialism is about breaking down oppressive hierarchies so that we can actually be united as a class and, eventually, as a species overall as class is eroded as a construct. a lot of harmful behavior around here has been given passes (or has even been encouraged) through a moralistic, liberal, not-genuinely-intersectional framework around identity politics & liberation. way back in the late 2024 struggle session, there was an insightful comment that was removed (and then restored) about the pitfalls of tokenistic logic that hexbear often falls into, i wish i had it on hand. (i'd also add that this orientation toward idpol is highly selective on this majority white site: our POC users have often expressed that the site needs to be pulled kicking and screaming to address their concerns, which more often just results in good users giving up and leaving than anything actually being addressed).

the line between "understandable venting about oppression" and "this is genuinely hateful, anti-solidarity garbage" can be a fine one, and i understand the challenges in moderation and fostering site culture within that. i don't know where that line is exactly and things are often case by case. going with the current example of neurodivergence: "i wish NTs were better at understanding X and accommodating Y, and here's why" is obviously great, "NTs are so fucking annoying, ugh" is generally mostly fine within reason, but it's safe to say when you've verged into borderline eugenicist rhetoric you've not only crossed the line but have driven way past it and are disappearing beyond the horizon.

[-] Dirt_Possum@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

there was an insightful comment that was removed (and then restored) about the pitfalls of tokenistic logic that hexbear often falls into, i wish i had it on hand.

I'm so late to this thread there's probably not much point to commenting in it now, but I know exactly what insightful comment you're referring to. I do keep it on hand. It seems to be continuously relevant on hexbear and this thread is a perfect example.

So here it is, for what it's worth three days after the OP.

spoiler

CarlMarks @lemmygrad.ml

This instance has a challenging inconsistency in that it wants to hold lines like an org without adopting the (necessary) culture of patience, consensus-building, and mutual education required to do so. Most of the work in functional organizations is emotional, it is hearing some bullshit and finding a way to move the group to the correct positions rather than reaching straight for vilification, uncharitable assumptions, and callouts. And it requires planning and coherency for projects that take months to complete. By the time people are pissed about ignorance, the (education heavy) project that would actually address the issue should have been going for months. Just dropping a reference and saying "educate yourself" is not an example of this. The reference must be adopted as a priority and focus with an accompanying schedule, rationale, contextualization, and implicitly some kind of buy-in like having all committees promoting participation and working it into their own projects. And it should become part of an adopted set of fleshed out positions and a "required reading" bibliography so that new members must adopt this education as part of an onboarding period. To be clear, I amnot criticizing the feeling of being pissed at someone saying something wrong or harmful, that is often entirely righteous. But the knee-jerk reaction is often the wrong one to take, it can tear down rather thsn build.

Without this educational and patient emphasis - and without structures that help democratize the way the organization communicates and functions - the group becomes at risk of toxicity and focusing endlessly on grievances based on whoever is "in charge" at the moment. Sometimes you get lucky and the people "in charge" keep things running well and avoiding turmoil. More often, you get toxic cliques, subsequent imbalanced application of norms, and a treatment of comrades as primary enemies. creates burnout and alienation between everyone.

This instance is increasingly tending towards the latter, with calcifying cliques at various levels that are increasingly hostile towards the userbase. They frame this using communist and liberationist language, though often inconsistently. For example, I know that one of those that is throwing around accusations and being generally aggro has also been repeatedly explained of how something they are saying is anti-X (being vague because I'm not doing a callout), but rather than acknowledge this and do the work to build to a consensus understanding, they are lashing out. Others have been banned for less than their behavior, but they seem to be unscathed. It is quite clear that this user is both burned out and a member of a clique, and nobody with any power is either interested in or has the capacity to actually deescalate and, instead, are just supporting their in-group.

It should also be noted that this is a standalone website and not an organization. I'm going on and on about (dys)functional organizations, but a website of anonymous users has its own challenges and limits. But the social core I'm describing seems to be there.

I see a lot of tokenizing logic on this instance, which I see as internalized liberalism coming from a good place - seeking liberation - but then combining with petty toxicity to act more like a weapon for mutual alienation. "Someone with an X identity told you it bothers them so you need to stop", that kind of thinking. To those of us with a liberatory mindset struggling against reaction, this can be appealing, as we see ourselves as co-struggling for liberation with or as "X" and in opposition to any anti-"X" action. This makes it easy to adopt this tokenization, maybe even not notice that this is what is happening, never stopping to wonder what it means when an "X" person has the polar opposite view of another "X" person and how the logic then falls apart, therefore requiring a different justification for the initial position. Tokenization, aside ftom being itself [racist, sexist, ableist, etc] makes our theory fragile and organizations weak, at risk of takeover by liberal positions that attach themselves to sn identity. And, to me, not recognizing and rejecting tokenization in a left space belies a naivete, it means they have not had to combat it in irl organizing where it is ubiquitous and can straight-up destroy entire projects and organizations.

For one example, I have seen more than one allegedly socialist / clasd conscious organization fail to maintain an anti-cop position in the US because, and I kid you not, "most black people want more police". And this is often coming from white people, who are only understanding black people through tokenizing logic: they have decided that "the" black person position is actually a pro-cop sentiment (more to unpack there, of course) and are not engaging in the correct analysis of why we must understand cops as part of the racialized capitalist prison industrial complex. Though to be clear, I have also heard this same logic from other black people, namely those in proximity to bourgeois interests, those in leadetship of NGOs (funded by bourgeoisie) or business owners, all of whom understood (black) community improvement in terms of capital investment (shops, black owned businesses etc), of capital investment only coming from private investment (because this is their actual lived experience), and cops as the business-protecting alternative to street gangs. If you try to adopt tokenizing logic to justify one's position on racialized policing, let alone forming a political program by which to organize against it, then you are vulnerable to its same weaknesses when it is weaponized for a liberal position. And the liberal position will benefit from being amplified by capital.

So, to me, it seems like those who aren't hyper-aware of tokenization just plain don't have much experience doing irl organizing. They are underdeveloped in terms of praxis and will make various (near?-)fatal mistakes for the groups they are in.

Anyways apologies for the long post. We should of course oppose misogyny, anti-blackness, transphobia, and fatphobia, all of which are part of this infighting. We also need to be able to communicate patiently with one another, prioritize education, and be willing and ready to accept criticism, as we have all internalized logics of marginalization that need to be purged. Either that or we will need to ban everyone except me, the one true leftist on this site.

To make an unsolicited recommendation, it is to get involved with irl organizing, in any capacity, and to seek out organizations that are socially competent: where there is an emphasis on education and understanding to resolve internal disputes. These orgs will have better humility and better external projects, in my experience. This place ia just a website, it could go poof one day because the domain owner gets alienated enough. But a network of irl comrades has real staying power and will help develop actual impact and inclusion.


Tagging @BeanisBrain@hexbear.net since he was asking about the context for that struggle session.

[-] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

Very good, honestly we should make that comment a part of the site's canon.

[-] Dirt_Possum@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

I couldn't agree more.

[-] PowerLurker@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

yes!! this exact one, TY comrade fidel-salute

[-] Dirt_Possum@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago
[-] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 1 points 4 days ago

It's hard to keep track, what was the late 2024 struggle session about?

[-] PowerLurker@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago

"dunking gives he/him energy" i believe was the main point of contention

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

It's literally just incel shit for leftist NDs (and I try not to wave the flag too often, but like, I am so off in the weeds that the psych people think I am either ADD or extremely high functioning ASD or Asperger's, like strange enough that I have at least two studies written with me as one of the central subjects, which made growing up not very fun).

Extremely frustrating. Like, much of the shit coming out of here is stuff I've literally heard Peter Thiel or Elon Musk say on a podcasts.

[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 13 points 4 days ago

There's nothing uniquely autistic about "having poor social skills" or "being socially ostracized" since plenty of NDs and plenty of NTs for that matter also have poor social skills and are also socially ostracized. Meanwhile, the vast vocabulary of stims or the hypersensitivities or the tendency to anthropomorphize and emotionally bond with inanimate objects or the fact that autism makes you 4x more likely to be trans or just being a furry in general are almost unique to the autistic experience. Ridiculous self-aggrandizing bullshit like "autists are paragons of morality because autists don't want to say that you look fat in that dress" needs to fucking go.

[-] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

nah fuck off with that. incels blame women for things that aren't womens' fault or responsibility to fix, while we face structural discrimination that is the fault of the people perpetuating it who do owe us not being bigots.

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

And yet you are blaming things on NT's that, at least according to the article, isn't consciously their fault. It isn't conscious bigotry. Which means it is something that can possibly be worked on. On top of that, we don't know exactly what the mechanism for that is, structural, cultural, genetic, etc.

So it's not exact 100% parallels, but the affect is the same. Are you going to self-hate and self-ostrasize while you wait for the world to magically become a better place?

So yeah, you're gonna face structural discrimination. And yeah, society owes it to you to work through those issues. But wallowing in this woe as me crap doesn't do shit, for ND or NT.

[-] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago

other prejudices are sub- or unconscious learned behaviors as well, that doesn't let the perpetrators off the hook

completely fucking wild to call it self hate and self ostracization when i don't hate myself, only my conditions and our society. I don't self-ostracize, people do that for me, thanks. Or they take no covid precautions at all, so i can go out and either have interactions that compare unfavorably with death or i can go out and get sick and die. Cool world they've built.

it's not wallowing, it's recognizing that I have no power to change any of it and i don't imagine Sisyphus is happy.

[-] Hermes@hexbear.net 8 points 4 days ago

I think that being isolated by your peers does a lot to warp your opinion of them into unpleasant places. It's most visible within the incel groups, since they are relatively well organized and share common beliefs that turn them into lolcows for the average person, but I see no reason that social isolation should effect people who aren't starting off from a position susceptible to incel adjacent ideas in a substantially different way. In my own experiences with social isolation, I have noticed misanthropic ideas about other people and their motivations spring up with little backing that then require effort to suppress.

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I absolutely agree, having suffered the same feelings myself, however, I am going to call it for what it is. I will not validate this stuff, it is reactionary and self-defeating.

[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 15 points 4 days ago

They're acting like weirdo R*ddit dweebs lol. Autism mostly makes me vocal stim at 3 in the morning and have expansive standard operating procedures on something as mundane as microwaving a burrito. My crappy social skills is more about me being the weird kid going through home and school trauma and poorly equipped with the means to navigate through social environments than anything about autism in general. I guess I have that thing where I hate eye contact, but that's honestly shitty Western social customs since plenty of cultures think Westerners staring at each other's eyes is creepy unhinged shit.

I always disliked having poor social skills or being socially ostracized to be centered within discussions about autism. Plenty of NTs have trash social skills, and plenty of NDs, even people with autism, have good social skills. I don't really see the difference between an NT with shitty social skills and an autist with shitty social skills. They'll both be unfunny, give creepy vibes, don't understand how to navigate their bodies in social spaces, not understand jokes, not know how to start or continue a conversation, and so on. Like, just because people were autism are incapable of having good social skills (I don't agree with this characterization, but for the sake of argument let's accept it) doesn't mean that NTs are somehow naturally born with good social skills. I'm sorry, but I don't have the ability to see someone with poor social skills and go, "You can tell that they don't have autism but is just an NT with poor social skills." Must be the autism in me.

And don't even get me started at, "Autism is like a truth serum man, so we can't lie unlike the duplicitous en-tee." Get the fuck over yourself. I can see that autism apparently doesn't stop them from entertaining self-delusions about the alleged moral superiority of autists over NTs (and the rest of NDs apparently). Autists are the master race, NTs are untermenschen, and allist NDs fit in some intermediate tier within this fucked up hierarchy where they are better than the NT cattle but nowhere near as good the autist ubermensch.

I'm glad we're moving past "autism is about having a persecution complex against shitty NT and NDs-who-don't-have-autism-that-we'll-pretend-are-NTs-to-push-a-narrative bullies" and towards "autism is about being a trans furry with cute plushies."

[-] Athena5898@hexbear.net 7 points 4 days ago

The idea that autistic people can't cause harm is very dangerous. Plenty of white supremacist autistic people out there. And double points they hide behind their autism when called out.

Abuse doesn't care about your labels. Hurt people hurt people after all. It's almost like human interaction is a very complicated nuanced topic. It's why you always have to be in the pursuit of knowledge, perspective, and truth.

And I say this as somone who has someone in their life who, while has done better on this, still treats me differently because he won't do any introspection.

Flip side. My wife isn't autistic. But as we've learned about it, often helps me when I don't even realize I'm having issues. And on top of that has used the things ive talked about in her social work to help autistic queer kids.

[-] Oskolki@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago

Can I ask why is every single industry heavily critiqued by leftists for being a "psychological op" but somehow the DSM-5 is this one holy grail that is totally untouched and everything they say is the truth?

"Double empathy problem" is such a weird way to put it. It's just a mind reading loop problem that anyone can go through, it doesn't matter if you're NT or ND, literally everyone is different. You're literally doing another "Human nature" argument and you can't debunk me so you'll rage and fling shit at me. Because I can see right trough you.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago

I agree. I'm not gonna blame them, in fact I wish I was them, it would make life 200% easier

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago

I don't know if you're talking about sensory sensitivity or something, but a lot of the time when people say this (as in the OOP), they are talking about social circumstances that are overwhelmingly caused by bigotry and lack of education in broader population on this issue and what it can mean to be autistic. Insofar as that is the issue, the problem is not your biology, the problem is society hating people for being born differently, and society can and should be changed.

this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2026
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neurodiverse

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What is Neurodivergence?

It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc

“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”

So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned


Rules

1.) ableist language=post or comment will probably get removed (enforced case by case, some comments will be removed and restored due to complex situations). repeated use of ableist language=banned from comm and possibly site depending on severity. properly tagged posts with CW can use them for the purposes of discussing them

2.) always assume good faith when dealing with a fellow nd comrade especially due to lack of social awareness being a common symptom of neurodivergence

2.5) right to disengage is rigidly enforced. violations will get you purged from the comm. see rule 3 for explanation on appeals

3.) no talking over nd comrades about things you haven't personally experienced as a neurotypical chapo, you will be purged. If you're ND it is absolutely fine to give your own perspective if it conflicts with another's, but do so with empathy and the intention to learn about each other, not prove who's experience is valid. Appeal process is like appealing in user union but you dm the nd comrade you talked over with your appeal (so make it a good one) and then dm the mods with screenshot proof that you resolved it. fake screenies will get you banned from the site, we will confirm with the comrade you dm'd.

3.5) everyone has their own lived experiences, and to invalidate them is to post cringe. comments will be removed on a case by case basis depending on determined level of awareness and faith

4.) Interest Policing will not be tolerated in any form. Support your comrades in their joy!

Further rules to be added/ rules to be changed based on community input

RULES NOTE: For this community more than most we understand that the clarity and understandability of these rules is very important for allowing folks to feel comfortable, to that end please don't be afraid to be outspoken about amendments and addendums to these rules, as well as any we may have missed

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