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submitted 3 weeks ago by Stamau123@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I mean, how exactly do you create a "sustainable" rocket? Genuinely curious, as the sheer amount of energy it takes to escape the earth's gravity well would render this an almost impossible feat.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago

Sustainable rocket program.

Like SpaceX does it.

The current launch used supplies and technology that can no longer be produced, is single use, and has enough potential points of failure that it’s taken them months beyond the original launch date to achieve conditions for a reliable launch.

At least Isaacman has them on a path to achieve something repeatable in the future.

[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 weeks ago

SpaceX’s only current launch capability is to LEO and it took them 20 years to make it ‘sustainable’. This rocket is going to the moon today.

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

Falcon Heavy is quite a capable rocket, with about 60% of the SLS's payload capacity to LEO when the side boosters are reused (although it's almost never used for LEO, since no one actually needs that large of a payload there...).

New Glenn can reuse it's whole first stage, but currently has only 47% of the SLS's payload capacity to LEO. (with plans for a larger variant)

Starship... has been kind of a mess. At least with how their timeline has compared to their goals. They have demonstrated several successful launches, but with the reliability of their past few, I doubt anyone will trust them anytime soon.

China seems extremely close to having a partially reusable heavy lift rocket, they have said that they'll test it in the first half of this year (LEO payload a little bit higher than Falcon Heavy, but they plan to go to the moon with something very similar). India has some looser long-term plans.

As a spaceflight nerd, I was thinking today about why I (and everyone else) don't care that much about the Artemis launch. I think it's largely because it's not demonstrating anything new; they already did basically the same mission but without the people in it, and even more advanced missions with people in them were done in the 1960s. The rocket itself though isn't helping, the only things it has going for it compared to other modern rockets are that it's large and probably reliable. The technology is basically just re-used space shuttle parts, there's nothing that seems particularly innovative, and reusing old technology hasn't prevented it from being extremely expensive compared to basically everything else (~20x the cost of New Glenn, Falcon Heavy, or Starship per launch...). It's also worse for the environment in basically every way (expendable, and has solid fuel boosters).

I kind of agree with what some other people have been saying about NASA for a while now. They should probably just stick to the satellites, rovers, and technology tests, making their own launch vehicle is not really helping anyone. The usefulness of being a government funded thing is that they can do the type of science to help humanity that doesn't turn a profit. They don't really need their own launch vehicle to do their science, and the vehicle itself is so conservative that I'm sure they aren't really learning anything from it. If they were actually capable of producing something economical and better than the corporations then it wouldn't be a problem, but that will never happen with Congress pushing rocket designs that "seem like they would be cheaper" and forcing NASA to route all work through insanely inefficient military contractors.

[-] Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Your thoughts seem like they make sense in the current system, and it kinda does, I see where's you're coming from. But what you're basically saying is "privatize spaceflight and let open scientific research and the progress of humanity be dependent on the whims of billionaires".

Obviously, with all the problems the US government has, this thought of yours might even be kinda good in this current situation. But if you actually go to implement it, you're doing a really bad thing for the far future of spaceflight. What should actually happen is that the US government should be changed to let NASA be effective and efficient without dumb political constraints.

And SpaceX and other private actors should only be allowed to continue what they're doing if they share their technology/expertise with NASA.

That would have the same good effect as what you propose, just without this shitty system staying like it is.

[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

If SpaceX realllllllly wanted to, Falcon Heavy could likely pull off a lunar return trip like this (edit: with modifications), but ya, SpaceX designed their existing rockets around reusability in LEO.

When you don't have to think about reusability, it's a lot easier to do things, as so many problems become a lot simpler and weight savings are substantial.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago

Everything you say is correct, and it’s great that the mission is actually in progress.

But that is neither here nor there with the point I was making.

I’m just glad that things have the potential to turn around at NASA now. I’d love to see them back at the forefront of space exploration and technology.

[-] mech@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

SpaceX's "sustainable" rocket program is mostly used to litter in low earth orbit, though.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago

Indeed… the program is sustainable at the expense of the environment.

But it’s a step up from not sustainable at all.

I really really hope the moon program gets beyond both those issues (figuratively and literally).

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Having re-usable parts is the obvious bit. But actually the worst part for the environment from a lot of rockets is the solid fuel boosters, those leave a ton of weird stuff in the atmosphere that a liquid fueled thing wouldn't (like the Falcon Heavy, Starship, Delta 4 Heavy, New Glenn, Long March 9 and 10...)

[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Even Starship is going to leave a lot of CO2 behind, but they could technically make their own methane and be carbon neutral, but they aren't as they can't make enough of it fast enough for their plans, even if they do make some.

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Interestingly apparently water vapor from rocket launches can be similarly harmful to CO2. Water vapor doesn't usually get into the upper atmosphere, and has a hard time exiting, but still acts as a greenhouse gas.

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 weeks ago

Define "sustainable rocket". There are greener fuels, like hydrogen peroxide, but I don't think they give enough push to get to orbit.

But if you're willing to drop the "rocket" part, you can remove the propellant entirely, and use a railgun or spinlaunch system. (Strictly speaking you'll still need some kind of propellant for corrections and orbital maneuvering, but you're not burning a fuckton of propellant just to beat gravity.)

There is also the question of the reusability of the rocket itself, but SpaceX and others have fairly well proven that by now.

[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

No one but SpaceX has proven they can do it so far, Blue Origin has only landed one, but hasn't reused it yet. They're close, but not quite there yet.

[-] erusuoyera@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

railgun or spinlaunch system.

Not for manned launches though. Unless the goal is to send 280kg of meat paste to orbit.

this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2026
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