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Egypt bans niqab in schools
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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You can't even write 2 sentences without contradicting yourself. It's their choice, but their male guardian wouldn't let them out without it?
It should be their choice, but with guardians they’ll just grow up abused and school-less.
Force kids to have to go to school? That’s what western nations do. Parents get in huge trouble for not making sure their kids are in school.
Not sure what the situation is in Egypt, but seems like that would be a great way to get these people to pull their daughters out of regular schools and start homeschooling them, giving them the absolute bare minimum education they can get away with, and further cut them off from the world.
And possibly a few would go full psycho and do some honor killing bullshit "I'll be damned if I let my daughter out of the house with her face uncovered, I'd rather kill her"
I am not aware how this is in Egypt, but I grew up in Jordan and in the early 2000's people were still sending their boys to private nice schools and their girls to crappy public schools and sometimes pull them out before they could get the national diploma (called tawjihi). I also know for a fact that a lot of the women I worked with in the same workplace were only allowed to do so because they wear hijab and it's a teaching job with a gender-segregated teacher's room. It's sad, it's heartbreaking, it should never happen, but when something like their dress code is banned from their workplace, then you're just setting life for them on Difficult. They are vulnerable and are in more need of direct intervention and help than they are in need of a change of law.
Homeschooling isn't allowed in the majority of places, although i'm unsure about Egypt.
According to Wikipedia the status isn't quite clear in Egypt.
Information seems kind of sparse at least on the English language parts of the internet that I can easily search but the gist I was able to get (not that I'm super confident in this being correct) is that children need to be enrolled in a school between the ages of 4 and 14, but some schools allow homeschooling as long as they take the required exams in school. And of course some parents just do what they want to anyway regardless of the law.
Based on that, I could imagine some parents begrudgingly allowing their daughters to go to school up until they turn 14 and then not allowing them to continue beyond that due to this change when otherwise they might have.
I found this in Arabic that explains it quite well. In some situations, parents are able to home school their children: if schools are bad and students don't perform as well (or lose their "morals"), if they need assisted learning, or if they are high school students they can take some school courses online and only attend the exams (such as doing the IGCSE). Also seems like there are some institutions that help parents home school children.
https://nooun.net/%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7/different-options-to-educate-your-children#i-3
We had a building guard in the apartment block where my parents lived who was an Egyptian national and had a daughter and a son and refused to send his daughter to school even though it was illegal in Jordan to not do so. However, most likely due to shitty beliefs + bad economy + Jordanian law for foreigners means that his daughter never made it to school and was just "married off" as soon as possible. My parents pleaded with him right and left but he would not budge. Reporting it to the authorities would most likely mean the girl would have been mistreated. I'm in no way saying this is a normal thing in Egyptian society based on this one perdon, but I'm trying to say that it happens a lot with a certain demographic and those kids need our help as adults around them.
I found this in Arabic that explains it quite well. In some situations, parents are able to home school their children: if schools are bad and students don't perform as well (or lose their "morals"), if they need assisted learning, or if they are high school students they can take some school courses online and only attend the exams (such as doing the IGCSE). Also seems like there are some institutions that help parents home school children.
https://nooun.net/%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7/different-options-to-educate-your-children#i-3
We had a building guard in the apartment who was an Egyptian national had a daughter and a son and refused to send his daughter to school even though it was illegal in Jordan to not do so. However, most likely due to shitty beliefs + bad economy + Jordanian law for foreigners means that his daughter never made it to school and was just "married off" as soon as possible. My parents pleaded with him right and left but he would not budge. Reporting it to the authorities would most likely mean the girl would have been mistreated. I'm in no way saying this is a normal thing in Egyptian society based on this one perdon, but I'm trying to say that it happens a lot with a certain demographic and those kids need our help as adults around them.
I think it might still happen even if it's illegal. They can do it at schools that don't care about attendance or say that the children have some kind of learning disability or mental problem preventing them from coming to school. As long as they go to exams, I'm assuming it can happen.
Looking at the other comment, the status of homeschooling seems somewhat ambiguous.
However, in my country where children must attend school until they're 18, what you described doesn't work. No child is exempt from this rule, save for those with extremely severe learning disabilities. And schools are extremely strict when it comes to non-attendence of minors. For instance, after 10 missing days each further missing day must be accompanied by a doctor's notice (or other proof if it's unrelated to health, such as attending a funeral of a family member during school hours). If there is no valid reason why the child was missing for so long, the parents will either receive a fine in the low thousands of dollars or a criminal investigation will be started.
Knowing a bit about Egypt, I think it's sadly not the case 😔
Wherever there is poverty and lack of trust in authorities, there will be a shit ton of kids out of school and unaccounted for until they slip through the cracks.
So, in order to not provoke their moronic parents, we should let them be oppressed. Got it.
I guess being from the middle east myself and having experineced this shit firsthand, yes - it is better for them to still have access to the workplace and school. Nothing in what I said supports guardians treating their children like shit or thinking they have any way in the live sofnwomen aged 18 and above. Ultimately the problem is women having less freedom, and I don't see how restricting that further with bans will do anyone any good.
Problems where the symptoms are fixed will still have root causes that run deeper and deeper. If you want these women out of these horrible situations and life, this is a bad way to do it.
Yea, cuz they’d get more oppressed if provoked. I’m not sure if I believe in that but that’s what they’re saying.
Well that a feature if personal choice. You just ignore all the influences all the bad things that happen you make the wrong choice
I feel like you misread my statement. Sorry if the English was wonky (I doubt it though).
My reading was they expressed concern that the guardians who imposed face coverings on these girls would deny them education rather than give up the garment, then frustration that some people, like those guardians feel they have the right to impose such rules. Seems consistent to me.
Learn to read. The 2 statements that were written are not contradictory.