If I'm a liberal, that would make you a turbo liberal. You guys keep throwing that word around, I'm not sure you even know what it means at this point. What kind of liberal wants total worker ownership and control of production? That is antithetical to the free enterprise fundamentals of liberalism.

If you oppose my actual beliefs (not the ones you made up and assumed based off of nothing) then you oppose your own beliefs, as Marx himself believed that a socialist state was required to be implemented before it could serve its purpose and wither away. If you oppose the implementation of socialism, you oppose communism. I merely suggest we implement socialism and go from there, see where things lead us. I don't think the state would ever be able to wither away, as there will always be some need to facilitate the regulations decided upon, and we are long past the scales of community that allow that to happen autonomously. Apparently that's such a radical notion that it makes me liberal. You guys are trying so hard to shift the Overton window, but the window has to at LEAST stay on the wall. You can't shift left further left than you guys are, so just because someone isn't ALL THE WAY left, doesnt mean that they are on the right.

Not that you guys are capable of arguing in good faith, anyways.