307
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
307 points (95.5% liked)
News
23305 readers
3688 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Thank goodness, the murders can continue
I know right, this governor should have made murder illegal instead touches forhead
I don't think it's quite an equivalence. When carrying firearms is illegal (as it effectively is in my country of Canada), you know whenever you see someone with a gun that you should run and call the police. You know they're up to no good. In many US states, if you see someone with a gun... you kinda just have to deal with it. Maybe they'll shoot you. Maybe they just need to overcompensate for something. You can't really run from it because it can be so common.
A decent amount of gun crime is also spur of the moment acts. They won't go home, get their gun, and come back. The gun violence only happens because the perpetrator happened to have a gun when they were angry. Banning carrying doesn't guarantee people won't be armed in public, but it sure will heavily reduce it.
Criminals don't open carry. If you see a gun holstered on someone, they are explicitly showing you they are not a threat to you unless you become a threat to them. If they wanted to harm you, why would they show their hand before making a move.
Lethal crimes of passion are far more rare than you're making them out. Carrying a pocket knife is legal in Canada no? Do you feel you're in constant danger of being stab by any random angry stranger? Cars are common in Canada, do you flinch at every intersection because you aren't sure if someone had a bad day and wants to run someone over randomly? No of course not, because the overwhelming majority of people don't want to hurt anyone
Did you see that video of the lady open carrying in Houston who started shooting at the car that cut her off? Hilarious. Sorry, you were saying?
Did you see the article of the Saskatchewan mass stabbing that had something like 28 casualties? Anecdotes are not indicative of trends.
In a country of 300M you will have outliers. But there are hundreds if not thousands of carriers not hurting a fly for every article like this. Texas alone has 1.7M licensed carriers. So that ratio is actually probably in the hundreds of thousands to 1.
US has a gun problem. It isn't really news. Unfortunately guns are ingrained into US culture and people will defend their right for guns against all common sense.
Try comparing countries by homicide categorically.
As it is, you're showing you don't care at all about homicide - only that the specific implement is a firearm.
So US is what, in the top 20? If you filter for developed countries, US is firmly #1. There is certainly room for improvement. Having easy access to devices designed to kill people is just madness to me.
Why don't you check out the data and directly refer to that early than making more bad guesses?
The original intent of a thing is entirely irrelevant to what a thing is used for. The sheer number of things in use in day-to-day life in ways far beyond original intent is mind-boggling. And then there's the flip-side, the logical extension of such an absurd focus precludes assigning actual blame for use of a thing in the way it was designed.
I'm not sure how you define easy, but requiring a background check is more than sufficient barrier for me. Then again, I'm not pants-shittingly terrified of inanimate objects.
Want and need are different. I don't want to shoot a rabid dog that got loose, but I absolutely will before it bites me. Same with any other threats to my bodily safety that I can't escape from.
Are you under the impression that America has a violent crime rate of 0 and carriers are just hullicinating the existence of criminals or dangerous animals?
If you're cool with relying on chance that you'll never need it, that's fine I'm not advocating you carry or change your laws. But I prefer to have the right to carry the tools to defend myself even if I'll likely never need them.
So you understand the concept and need for self defense. Pepper spray and tasers don't always work. If your assailant is on mind altering substances, pain compliance tools like PS will be inaffective. Tasers won't work (or are less likely to work) on winter clothing.
If you're cool with your odds that's fine, but I'm not willing to risk my life (or more importantly my partner's life) when conceal carry is just as physical easy as PS.
The problem is... you are assuming you are going to be attacked, and you assume you are going to be powerless unless you have a gun with you. Americans have been taught from infancy that the only true source of power and justice comes from the barrel of a gun. The lessons from the War of Independence and the Civil War have hammered home time and time again the belief that only naked, lethal force can guarantee safety and enact needed change.
Not governments, or agencies, or powers. Not religion, not dialogues, not negotiations. Only the ability and willingness to kill your fellow man can guarantee your safety and shape the world around you into what you want to see.
At times it has been your virtue, but it is also your curse.
The problem is that the things you talk about are all tools. Including guns. It's just that the primary tool use of a gun is to kill. If I see someone openly carrying a gun they are saying, "I am ready to kill." Carrying a knife? "I am ready to cut something." Driving a car? "I am going somewhere"
Can those latter two things be used to kill? Of course. Anything can be used to kill, but that isn't their primary function. The primary use of a gun, the reason why guns are made, is to kill things. And that makes all the difference.
Uh, yeah? This shouldn't be a revolation.
A family member of mine concealed carries because she was raped (I know a couple women like this but I know my family memeber's reasoning better since she's family). Do you want to be the one to tell her she's being paranoid? I sure don't.
And if she uses the gun on a would have been rapist, blame the rapist not the person defending themselves.
https://thosenerdygirls.org/logical-fallacies-8/
Do read the whole article.
I'm aware of the anecdote fallacy. Her carrying a gun is not a reason I'm for carry rights, her carrying a gun is a reason I'm happy to have the right. Subtle but important distinction.
No the reason we have the right is the 2nd amendment, full stop (no well regulated does not mean government regulations). And SCOTUS confirming this with the Bruen decision.
That... seems circular. The reason you have the right isn't self-defence though, its national defence. The second amendment was put in place to provide a ready source for a "well armed and well regulated militia", and that right has killed more people than it has saved. I guess the real issue is that I can't understand you, or where you are coming from.
I'm in my 50s and live in rural Canada, back in the itty bitty town on the West Coast that I moved out of as a teen, desperate to find work in the city. Today I hunt, I fish, and my favorite gun is the .270 Winchester I inherited from my father after he passed on a decade ago. Gun ownership and carrying laws are vastly more restrictive here than they are in the US, but not once have felt that those restrictions impinge on either my rights or my ability to protect myself or my family.
You have hundreds, nay thousands of people, dying every year from what to me, seems like a stupidly easy cause to prevent. All because your nation seems unwilling to grasp the concept that a good number of people aren't able to responsibly use the ability to project lethal force. No, you can't stop gun crimes by regulating guns, any more than locks can prevent all burglaries, but you CAN make it harder for bad people to get guns. Just like a good lock makes it harder for someone to steal your stuff.
Anyway, it's 2am here, and I apologize for subjecting you to this rant, but its a frustration I've wanted to get off my chest for awhile now. It's pretty clear you and I will never see eye to eye on this, but it was nice to back and forth a bit on this. I know it means less than a pitcher of spit, but all the best to you and yours, and to your sister as well.
Worstdriver
We probably agree on more then we disagree. There's a problem with murder in the US (gun or otherwise) and I agree we need to fix it. I just feel social programs that actually take care of people's needs (like what Canada has in universal healthcare and better worker protections) will fix far more violence, gun or otherwise.
The 2A is a right of the people and is clear about it being a personal right not a malitia right, so laws restricting gun ownership like what you have in Canada are illegal here.
And thank you for the polite banter, we may not agree on everything but discussing it without devolving into insults is a breath of fresh air.
The Bundy family would like to have a word.
Yep. Waiting until after murders occur is definitely the right approach to curbing gun violence.
Exactly, that's why she should have made murder illegal a long time ago instead so the murders stop without the courts ruling it unconstitutional forhead touch x2
For a second there I worried my children could die without firearms!