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this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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It’s easy:
Are you requesting I as a worker dedicate any part of my time, and/or usage of my personal resources to accomplish something for YOUR business? Yes it’s part of the work day.
This would create an issue where they only hire people in close proximity. This is terrible, for a number of reasons.
Nepotism gets exponentially worse and is then excused, poor areas will be effected the most because they lack businesses
I think a better solution is allowing people who have longer commutes to write it off on their taxes. This prevents the issues above
Subsidize based on type of transportation used? Public transit is mostly subsidized, and private transportation is the least subsidized. This would make employers seek out poorer people.
Private transportation is not the least subsidized. The government spends ridiculous sums of money to maintain infrastructure specifically for cars.
I think they’re saying kind of the opposite, they’re proposing that the employer be assisted in payroll by the government to hire folks, and they get more assistance for people with less commute impact?
Idk, most of these solutions boil down to UBI with extra steps imo. Once we get much further up the chain than “workers shouldn’t be burdened by commutes” then the obvious answer is to pay people to not need cars and that’s a lot like UBI, and I’d prefer we just do that than make it more complicated
Why would the employers care?
When I studied sociology, the common time spent commuting was generally 1 hour each way.
My own commute by public transport or bicycle is 50 minutes to 1 hr
Also, half the time, I’m literally taking work meetings during my commute because I’m both required to physically be in the office and also start taking meetings before I can even get to work.
When meetings are scheduled while I'm on my way home (I work 07:00 to 15:00 so it happens regularly), I fill my timesheet to show that as work time. I'm happy to argue if I ever get called on it
I have participated in meetings on the bus, in my car, on my bicycle, and while at the hair dresser, all that was work time
This doesn't entirely make sense, since commute is only a part of the routine. You could say, you wouldn't be taking a shower, so the employer has to pay for the water and the time you spend in the shower, etc.
The employer has no influence on where you live, why would they be paying for it?
If the company is paying for your skills, sitting in traffic is not one of them. So it's up to you to optimise your commute. (I.e. Bike, train, etc.)
ew, who wouldn't be taking a shower if not for work? 🤮
I prefer taking a shower in the evening. If you're suggesting people should shower twice I day (instead of just a wash-up), you're being wasteful.
No, I'm suggesting taking a shower once a day should not be related at all with going to work or not.
Eh, showering every day is bad for your skin and uses a lot of water. I work from home and definitely don’t shower every day especially if I’m only going to be leaving the house to walk my dog.
using a bike or a train in America is the exact opposite of optimizing one's commute.
now I WFH - thankfully - but looking up my old commute (10 miles)
27 mins by car
110 mins by public transit
105 mins by bike
215 mins walking
Motorcycle? Private helicopter? Teleport?
If i live 3 hours from my workplace my employer should pay me for the six hours to get to and from?
maybe I'm old school...
more reasonably would be something like the first 30 mins of commuting counts as working hours, as an example
Very unrealistic example to use.. It would be very unusual for anyone to take a job that's 3 hours away and make a six hour commute daily, while working an 8 to 10 hour work day.... that example is not the norm and would never be the norm for majority. But let's say for arguments sake you example works.... yes the employer should pay you for that extreme commute... absolutely.. but maybe I am more new school which was bound to happen as time wore on in society
there are people who took jobs during the pandemic that were not in the neighborhood. this is not as an unreasonable example as it would have been five years ago.
That's not what I said.. and that's not what you claimed.. and also.. no one works in their neighborhood, unless they work from home.. most work in theirs, or the neighborhing CITY. Most of us workers (at least 95% of us workers) do not and would not work at a job site for minimal pay, with a 3 hour commute both ways and not be well compensated for that commute or be some type of truck driver who is compensated for that.
lol ok buddy
If you live three hours from your workplace you should work remotely or get another job lol
that's the point of this outrageous example. How about this: Suppose there are two employees: Alice and Bob, who do the same job at the same factory. Alice has a 10 minute commute, Bob commutes 35 minutes. If you're the owner of the factory, how would you compensate them for their commutes?
Either:
A: compensate them equally and let Bob leave 20 minutes earlier and arrive 20 minutes later
B: compensate them equally for to traveled, meaning Bob would be compensated for 35 minutes and Alice 10.
C: pass through the tax deduction that I would get if it were company vehicle (xyz a mile) to the employee directly
If they’re putting their time and their equipment to show up for my business they should be compensated. Period.
No, i am expecting you to be at your place of agreed work that you were well aware of, at a time we agreed as stipulated in your agreement that you were open to reject if it was not suitable for you.
Its not the employers job to tell you where to live, how to get to work, or what to spend you time doing outside of work hours. Don't like the commute - pick a different job or move, you're an adult who can make these decisions.
Better yet, start a business where you pay your employees this way.
Well yeah, that's what's happening. That's what sparked this debate.
People ARE leaving their jobs for other organizations that allow work from home, getting paid more in some instances too.
If a competing business can't offer more than what the same work from home jobs are offering for the same position, work from home will win every time. Just like you said, it's business. Supply and demand, in a tidy work offer contract based on what is agreed upon.
Everyone at my work is complaining about the commute with RTO. I have a 15 minute bike ride to work on a secluded trail, I dont care
Aww good for you, here is a cookie... now you can ride off the calories on your way to work and feel more accomplished..