278
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2023
278 points (90.9% liked)
News
23424 readers
1750 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
The telegram has only 2 posts by the creator, conveniently only an hour or two before the picture was posted onto Twitter.
The telegram picture is also conveniently a picture of the exact same piece of paper featured in the twitter post...
Whats the odds that someone made the Telegram account with a picture of the paper on what looks to be a table, then took it outside, hung it up, and in under an hour or two it already was posted up onto twitter and being reported by, coincidently?
Moreover, why was the telegram created first, and yet also has zero members? Who does that and when does that happen? Typically such groups would already have a circle of individuals participating and the telegram would be created for them to chat easier, so the telegram would have users added asap.
But instead the telegram was made, zero members ever added, the photo uploaded asap of the already printed off paper, then only an hour or two later this twitter account happened to see it so fast and snap a pic, and didnt even bother to edit out the URLs, and uploaded it to twitter?
Would have been more believable if they had edited out the URLs, but nope, leaving them up like that is something someone trying to make it look legit would do.
It took me literally like, 30 seconds to just look that telegram up and see what was going on, and yeah lo and behold it looks fake as fuck.
The deluge of people believing this shit at face value and not even checking out how legit it looks is concerning. Like come on, it wasn't that hard to check.
Not everyone operates in typical ways. Isn’t it also possible that someone started the telegram in hopes like-minded folks would join?
If a fire alarm is pulled, assume there’s a fire.
It's the internet.. we should question everything. That's not to say this is false or that racists don't exist. Just that being skeptical should be the default position.
Sorry but you aren't going to convince me to just trust random strangers on the internet with a vested financial interest in gaining clicks/likes/shares/subs about random stuff they say, especially when its something so brazen.
The whole thing clearly looks fake as fuck. People need a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to shit like instagram/twitter/tiktok and whatnot, which was the medium this was shared over.
Nothing about that picture remotely looks like what it claims to be, the fuck kind of "moms and tots" group posts and shares that way, come on, use your head for a second and imagine the scenario playing out.
Even going with the absolute maximum benefit of the doubt, whatever way you try and frame it you still end up painting an incredibly bizarre nonsensical scenario that just. doesnt. make. sense.
The only scenarios that make sense based on the way it was shared, the way it was setup, and the way it has been followed up on are:
A: It was manufactured upset by the person who posted it. They created it all as a hoax to gain further subscriptions to their platform, which they have a vested financial interest in expanding.
B: It was created by a troll, who thought it would be funny to see it spread virally
Ask yourself some simple questions here:
How come the paper for the telegram post was the exact same one that got caught and put up on twitter? What are the odds?
How come there has only been one of these posted and shared anywhere, and how come only once? Surely there must have been other pictures of these flyers by other citizens?
The only conclusion you can make is... there was only one flyer taped up? And that one got taken down as soon as the picture was taken? Who goes to all that length to make the telegram, make the group, get a QR code, setup a (supposedly real) email, make a flyer all typed up... and then just only posts up one solitary flyer?
And what are the odds that that one solitary flyer gets found moments afterwards by, coincidentally, the owner of "BlackVancouver", a twitter/instagram that is pretty much entirely all about spreading around posts about trying to find racial injustices, and has recently been trying to get more subs/likes?
And despite all that, the telegram still today has no members/new posts.
And the email is a proton one? The fuck? What mom and tot group have you ever met that seriously uses fucking proton mail as their provider?
And jesus look at the chosen email and the chosen telegram name. It's twenty eight characters long. No normal person, especially one looking to share the group via flyer, ever makes something like that
I mean come on, this isn't sherlock holmes here, the thing is riddled with so many goddamn holes, a sieve would hold water better.
People like to be outraged. It makes them feel correct for not being the racist one and confirm how they already want to feel about others.
It's also easier for a brain to confirm what it already wants to believe. Good write up but I am unsure how good it would do of convincing those that need it that sometimes people just make rage bait to get people to think alike with them or because they are edgelords that think it's funny.
But you know as a wise Republican white commissioner in PA once said "I'm a black gay guy"
Theres tonnes of actual racist shit out there that gets dumped onto social media constantly.
It's wild to look at this and even remotely think "aw yeah this one definitely happened, looks super legit"
You have to live under a rock and never have actually encountered racist trash to think anything about this sign looks like it was made by such a person.
There's something about it that makes me think it a "to catch a predator" type meeting to out a bunch of white supremacists. Are they really trying to fish for contact information or get them to actually meet in a room? On the telegram link: "Hello everybody, we are encouraged by the response already and hope you can hang in there until we are all comfortable going in person."
The thing is that post was made almost as soon as the group was made, which doesnt even make sense, as no members were added yet.
Smells like fish.
Also curious if there have been other sightings of this flyer, or if it was the only one? If you only post one flyer in an obscure place, it's a lot easier to be the main source of documenting a flyer was posted on social media.
I looked around and all I could find was that one single solitary post/source, uploaded once, and literally zero other sightings/info indicating actual flyers were distributed.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/whites-only-mother-tots-group-condemned-british-columbia-1.6977449
That's more responsible journalism with due diligence. Weird thing is both social media links are basically the same post. The X comment is just someone reposing a screenshot from the Black Vancouver instagram.
On one hand: "CBC News located some of the signs, which had been partially removed, at the Coquitlam Centre, a shopping mall in the Vancouver suburb of Coquitlam, B.C."
On the other: "As soon as it was brought to our attention, bylaw officers immediately searched the area and all bus stops, but no signs were present. Perhaps being removed by someone else," said a joint statement from the city and Mayor Brad West."
The article does have a pic of a difference poster than the black vancouver instagram though. Curious if there's CTV footage to figure out who did this if it was at a shopping mall basically.
This article refers to multiple signs, in two municipalities. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/whites-only-mother-tots-group-condemned-british-columbia-1.6977449
Why is having a telegram with no members suspicious?
Because thats one of the only 2 things the flyer has a link to. It's precisely the sort of thing a person who's trying to create a "face value" seemingly real outrageous flyer would do.
They made the name for the telegram and the email incredibly long and difficult to type out, I am willing to bet the vast majority of people outraged and responding to this post havent taken the 30 seconds to actually go look at the telegram themselves, because its a lot of effort to type out by hand.
But if you do check it out, it looks fake as fuck. It has 2 whole posts of only 1-2 lines each and thats it, its empty and was made about an hour or so before the flyer was "discovered", and has been abandoned since then.
You have to be pretty out to lunch to look at that and conclude "aw yeah this looks super duper real, very legit, definitely was made for a real group by real people that definitely exist" lol
There are over 200 members. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/whites-only-mother-tots-group-condemned-british-columbia-1.6977449
Cope snd seethe harder
I dont have anything to gain and I think you're a fucking knob. You wrote a whole ass essay on why you think a racist action isn't real. How about spending five minutes with some country folk? You'll shut the fuck up real quick.
Ah yes, the type of people who will make a well formatted and very clearly legible flyer, complete with a qr code, telegram group, and proton email.
That definitely sounds like the sort of thing "country folk" are so well known for doing all the time.
You are out to lunch if you think this solitary piece of paper looks real, lol
There are definitely smart, tech capable racist people. I know. I'm related to a lot of them.
Sure, but each step you have to take of narrowing the scope of reasonable occurrences re-enforces Occam's razor.
Who is more likely to be a smart, tech capable person? A racist who seriously thinks posting up this flyer is a good idea? Or someone who already manages a social media account?
Each point individually can be chalked up to a coincidence, like yeah okay sure maybe you have this person who is simultaneously tech literate enough to make the nice well formed flyer and setup the centered QR code and setup the telegram account and setup a proton email BUT they are also stupid enough to think this flyer is a good idea?
Thats a mighty specific type of individual, they exist sure but, thats just one very narrow scope in this situation.
There's several more of these weird oddities about the flyer, and when you stack all of them up the whole thing seems extremely unlikely to have been put up by such a person.
Meanwhile, a tech literate person managing a social media account would be very much capable of making such a flyer, setting up the accounts/group, and is smart enough to know that 90%+ of people will be outraged by the flyer and not bother to dig any deeper than face value, and they know they wont get in any trouble over it because no one would believe the people who actually dig even a little bit into it and point out all the weird shit about the flyer.
There's no extra mental gymnastics required for that second conclusion, it's pretty straightforward and it's not an unheard of thing to do, people purposefully putting up inflammatory marks in public and sharing them.
looks like the telegram preview is updated with a more unabashed white supremacist forum link.
Oh fascinating, the prior telegram account was taken down and the new one created.
Note how the new telegram group was created today, despite the group prior existing yesterday.
I can also personally confirm the "old" one that was stood up yesterday had different 2 posts, different image, etc etc.
This one that is at the same URL still only has 2 posts but different ones.
Not sure if perhaps telegram took down the old group and then someone jumped on creating a new account now, perhaps?
But its definitely a completely different group from the one made yesterday, I should've taken some screencaps of what it looked like.
looks like the instagram had screen caps: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cxl2k7lsGgX/?img_index=1
Nice find! Thanks and yeah, you can see how its a totally different group that existed yesterday, and a new one was made today at the URL
Occam's Razor, hmm... "Lots of white people are still racist" vs "[5000 word essay on ...]
"If I don't read someone' response I wont have to confront the possibility I was mistaken"
GGWP
I listen to bullshit all day, I'm not trying to engage some internet whacko in good spirited debate. I'm taking public amusement at the irony of you invoking Occams Razor while relying on an explanation that requires that much detail
You... realize that the explanation was pointing out explicitly the unlikely scenario required all that detail... right?
Ergo, that scenario was the one that got Occam's Razor'd? The one that took all that explaining to do?
...because it requires so much work to explain and try to turn into something plausible?
You... you get that right?
Your entire fucking argument is that a racist can't center a QR code!!!
Eh, walk around with a Nazi flag and see how long it takes before you're on social media...
The person would have created the telegram group so others who wanted to take part would have somewhere to communicate after seeing the advert?
Honestly this kind of attitude is only diminishing a problem that's very real, i.e. the rise of racism and bigotry.
Thanks for posting this. You are showing what people SHOULD be doing instead of immediately going into some race-baited tirade. The problem is that these days, people seem to WANT to get baited into some race argument. Lots of blue-haired, black nail-polish zoomers with nothing better to do started fuming before before they should jump into the comments and read a post like yours which shows that this is probably some total bullshit. Either a joke or something posted to purposefully cause controversy.
Ya I am one of those types of folks still, I just took the 30 seconds to look into what I was reading.
When you make statements like the above, you just shove yourself over to the other end of the problem. You do realize that blanket referring to a large group of people as all behaving the same way is bigotry right?
Like, you realize you can critique a post without resorting to bigoted ad hominem attacks on a massive group of people?
Please don't associate with me, lol. You aren't behaving much better. Literally everything you wrote here was unnecessary and you're post would have been much better without it included:
Literally all of that was totally unneeded, and makes you sound extremely bigoted.