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this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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[Outdated, please look at pinned post] Casual Conversation
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But isn't it sort of the indigenous version of blackface? I'm honestly asking, I'm not trying to make a connection that isn't there.
No, I wouldn't say it's the same.
Are you indigenous?
No, I'm a mutt.
Then you have no right to speak for them or decide what is or isn’t offensive to them.
Easy there, our friend. At this point in time, it's hard not to see this kind of thing as a mental exercise. Even when it comes to my own culture, I have trouble knowing what is "offensive". Identity is weird.
Yes, I agree that it isn’t that simple, and as I said in another comment here, people of a specific culture will have differing opinions and feelings on the matter. That doesn’t mean that non-Hawaiians get to decide what is offensive to Hawaiians, and that is what I am addressing.
Ok, then in that case OP doesn't have a right to decide elementary school Hawaiian day is offense. Case closed.
There is a difference. OP is asking if indigenous Hawaiians would find it offensive. You have been stating that it isn’t as a matter of fact, even though it’s not for you decide.
Yeah I catch your drift. I didn't know he was asking Hawaiians specifically. I guess everyone in this thread should keep quiet.
But aren't grass skirts ceremonial? Like part of religious ceremonies? I really would love a native Hawaiian to chime in.
Lei's are ceremonial, too.
Ok, then maybe that shouldn't happen either? I'm just not big on cultural appropriation, especially when it's one culture appropriating another culture they committed genocide against and never apologized for.
Cultural appropriation is a debate of its own. The wikipedia page on cultural appropriation explains it better than I can. My view is that yes, it would be bad if people started wearing pa'u's on a regular basis because they think it looks cool with no respect for where it came from. Wearing one to Hawaii day at school is not bad because the intention is to celebrate the culture.
Later this month I'm going to an Oktoberfest party and people will be wearing lederhosen. I live in the USA. Is that offensive?
But again, the U.S. didn't commit genocide against Germany.
Yeah I guess not. I don't think that's a qualifier for cultural appropriation though.
Well no, I think that literally appropriating their culture by wearing their ceremonial clothing is a qualifier for that. That it's appropriating a culture that America committed genocide against is just the icing on the cake.
Britain engaged in a strategy of 'terror bombing', the deliberate murder of German civilians, during WW2, killing over a million people. If a Brit wears a lederhosen, is that offensive? What about a Russian? French folk?
The present is more important than the past. In the past, we've all killed each other in horrific, cruel ways. What matters is the present - Native tribes often still use the national dress they're depicted with (without much concern for accuracy in most cases) in important cultural folkways, and Native Americans in general still suffer from severe discrimination. For that reason, not past genocides (though the past genocides are obviously important to recognize and acknowledge), is tribal 'costume' inappropriate and insensitive.
Indigenous Americans often get pretty offended when white people wear their traditional clothing. I'm not sure why this isn't the same.
If you mean lederhosen, then the second paragraph explains why it's different. If you mean the grass skirts, then I can't comment, as I don't know if there's a ceremonial component to grass skirts that would make wearing one offensive.
I meant grass skirts.