228
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
228 points (97.9% liked)
World News
39001 readers
1014 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
And the authoritarians keep moving up their positions.
The debate over here is fucking crazy, the post-fascist backed government is sneering at any proposed solution with any nuance or suggested preventative measures included. It's all fucking military intervention, insane deregulation of policing, surveillance, harsher punishments, regressive drug policy, and anti immigration populism.
Do we have an uptick in violence because of a very specific ongoing gang conflict, yes. But Jesus Christ, not anywhere near the level that would excuse anything close to this.
I agree that the current government is implementing exactly 0 long-term strategies to help deal with the root cause of the problems, like strengthening and financing social services and welfare, healthcare and mental healthcare, schools and social programs, decriminalizing some drugs etc, to curb influx of underage criminals into the gangs and remove some of the economical incentives. The opposition is coming out with good suggestion after good suggestion, and the right-wing (by Swedish standards) government has basically just slashed welfare across the board in practice. They are going for only the hard-on-crime approach, which as far as I know has no real scientific proof of long-term efficacy unless paired with social/community interventions.
However, I think many swedes agree that the police need more resources - particularly people watching possible targets of future bombings and just more eyes on the gangs. We have one of the lowest number of police per capita in Europe, slightly higher than the rest of the Nordic countries tbf, but with much bigger problems with organized crime and violence.
I'm also horrified at this general societal development, but I can see the merit of involving some of the military in more eyes-on-the-ground kinds of operations for a few years until we have more of a grip on the gang situation. I prefer that to visitation zones, harsher punishments and more generalized surveillance of non-suspects being allowed.
But maybe I'm just naïve to the implications.
Yeah, I don't really disagree fundamentally with any of this apart from the fact that I don't think involving the military at this point is anywhere near warranted. We'll have to see what happens I guess, I think it could be mostly saber rattling. "Look how seriously we're taking this!".
But more police, and specifically more police on tasks that actually matter and aren't just being pursued to pad their stats? That's fine.
Yes, agreed, some of it is probably just bluster to seem like they're doing something.
However, even if we agree that more police resources are necessary, I don't know how we should get more of competent, educated police in the short term unless we involve military (who do have some education at least). The last thing I want is for us to rapidly employ new "police" (ordningsvakter) with only weeks or a few months of training - that's how we get additional problems with US-style police violence on top of the gang violence problems...
Agreed. There are not really any good options here.
In Ireland we have the special criminal court, it allows for the views of officials to be taken as evidence. Absolutely ripe for corruption but so far it hasn't been used for that. It is a closed door court with only the accused and the verdict being open to the public.
Then say something to counter my argument? Or just leave a commet, say I'm racist, and leave. Very mature!
Very Eloquent Mr cusswords
TIL Fredrik "Öppna Era Hjärtan" Reinfeldt is a virtual signaling leftist?
It's the typical Moderaterna playbook: increase load on the public services, and do a lot more privatisering to make it more "effective" (and line their pockets), as well as wage dumping for those few who were able to work well. As stuff started to get worse, they lose mandate. But new mandate can't clean up their problems very easily (and are too incompetent to do so), and so stuff keeps getting worse. People get tired, and they have awful memory, so they give power back to those who started the problem -- and suddenly they're interested in their "solutions" that lead to these problems in the first place and give up any freedoms left.
But keep pretending S started the problem. Their only fault was being too incompetent to fix integration and such from day 1.
Just how Dagens Industri is a "communist rag" (according to Johan Pehrsson) and Expo, that have had Moderates on the board, a left-extremist activist group, now also Reinfeldt also a lefty. Damn these rightwingers sure are far right these days.
That is my point though, "Their only fault was being too incompetent to fix integration and such from day 1"
Yeah, it was the Modraterna, who I absolutley consider to be "lefties" Who started this entire mess way back when, and "öppna era hjärtan" was a marvelous political power play where the American style "corporate socialist democracy" idk, crushed the more traditional communist leaning Scandinavian Socialism*; admit to being kinda racist and very culturally xenophobic, or import almost a million people with zero cultural ties to you.
And they are absolutley virtue signaling pansies imo. Just because I consider a moderate party in Sweden lefties and you do not, does not mean I belive S started the problem, S and VP or whatever the f they are called now had my respect before they absolutley bought the most obvious political move The average svennebannan has lost faith in the system, the gang related välfärdsfusk is going to overehelm, not literally, but emotionally and sensationally overwhelm hen. And I really do believe that.
The current SD is nothing to what it used to be, the combined efforts of both the parties I described earlier* declawed and removed any actually effective tools the party could have brought to the table other than "it was better in the 70-90s, and we don't like all these brown/black people"
Everyone hates to hear it but actual social nationalistic/democratic parties are going to become the mainstream more and more as the counter to the giant blob of grey that is the current swedish political landscape. The mass import of low cost different colored labor killed solidarity and everything else will soon follow.
Lefties, righties, what? Why do you only see directions instead of destinations?
Moderaterna didn't open the floodgates because they care about these people, but because their goal has always been to vaska välfärden. Even the current PM said it himself 30 years ago when he first got elected to Riksdagen, that his goal is to "bekämpa och avveckla välfärdsstaten". Do you think any "lefty" would ever say something like that, or do you simply like to abuse the English language?
If I buy sanctioned oil from Venezuela for really cheap and rebrand it for sale in the US, does it mean that I personally agree with any of Maduro's politics? Answer is "I don't know, I don't care, I just wanna get rich": the impact of my actions on anyone else is irrelevant to me. This has always been Moderaternas playbook, and the memory loss/lack of historical education saddens me.
And people will still eat it up: hårdahandskar, throw more people into expensive prisons, make it harder to get a job (if Kriminalvården did their job, anyways), more surveillance, less freedoms. Because it'd simply be too hard to eliminate the gang's main income source via selling some plants at Systembolaget.
wtf does maduro and venezuela have to do with swedish gang crime and the increased militarization of swedish police?
Other than that though, thats just my own point rebranded.
Modraterna played everyone, on behalf of the US&CIA, I believe it started with olof palme, literally that is what I believe. And you had to jump on the train to destabilize the swedish economy, by importing almost a million low to no skill workers, or you were branded a raging racist. A Professional, Picture Perfect generational psy-ops culture and economic campaign to end swedish solidarity.
And now that Sweden will be turned into a generic US/EU-lite hybrid, join NATO, and normalize entire populations on temp/gig work as a source of survival. All the wannabe commies and socialists who comprise the swedish goverment are going to stand by and let it happen. As it's already done deal, they stood by as the interest of the swede was sold out for the interest of the west. Then people act all surprised when some of us gasp* support more confrontational policing methods? As the majority of the west is facing a surge in organized crime? Especially Sweden?
Either way my og point stands. Solidariteten är över, they killed it by importing that much cheap labor. And Modraterna are absolutley "lefties" as they preach free markets(but only when it benefits them), open borders, etc. Which makes them liberal free market lefty globalists? And they like won too yall realize right? That's my point.
I'm assuming yall offended are "vänster" leaning. Which on a good day I think means yall are wannabe socialists or commies. Yall lost the fight along time ago I'm afraid.
Also, I literally grow and smoke exclusively my own shit. Why are you assuming I'm anti weed cause I'm pro-swedish-cops? lol every haschnisse i know has been arrested 3-5 times for possession, and their lives aren't exactly ruined. And what part of militarized police operating in specific situations and areas of Sweden will result in it being harder for people to get jobs? The equipment and training I'm talking about is the kind of shit that either, makes it easier for cops to go after middle-higher ranked individuals in organized crime structures, or keep cops from being shot. Not exactly a bad idea.
Not pulling up on Muhammed at 2am and just blasting. lol
As someone from the Northeast US that has lived here for the better part of 4 decades, people that live in gated communities are usually either retirees or twats scared of their own shadows.
Thank you for your input! It has been very useful, honestly you're not wrong, there is alot of older folk in the neighborhood. That and families with kids.
How do you resolve the contradiction of being anti-immigration while being an immigrant yourself?
By not being an immigrant.
You stated that you live in the United States and are originally from Sweden. Unless you made part of that up, that makes you an immigrant.
Twats like him call themselves expats and imagine that they can't be immigrants because they're white.
Lol imagine being so full of your own bullshit that even basic logic does not compute
Imagine being this dense and oblivious, but somehow still believe you're superior to anyone in any way whatsoever.
I see you have never added anything to any discussion ever! Literally a post history of hate for anyone who thinks differently
Then once again, say something that's productive to the conversation. Or just continue your need to keep adding empty comments that do not add to the discussion.
So if you were born in Uzbekistan, that makes you Uzbekistani, no exceptions?
There are exceptions, mainly if your parent is a foreign national in another country for work temporarily when you are born; the families of American military personnel stationed abroad comes to mind for me. Do you feel there’s something contextual about your situation that doesn’t qualify you an immigrant (such as being born with American Citizenship)? I ask because given what you’ve shared you sound deeply hypocritical.
I was raised both between my mother - none of of your concern!? As you stated there are several ways for me to move/live between both us/sweden and don't forget us/eu. Now are you going to discuss anything political regarding the issue of swedish police needing heavier handed tactics to deal with gang crime, a unheard of thought in Sweden just fifteen years ago, or the immigration issue leading up to it. or just name call? And nitpick as you have little to actually add other than looking for issues and discrepancies in others statements, and opinions man.
And all you are doing is word puzzles
You wrote a whole paragraph.
Nope. No other possibility. None at all. Let's close it up and go home.
Bt taking advantage of the system
I was going to stop at americanized policing but I pushed for one more sentence.
America has the worst gang violence in the "western" world. Their methods are proven not to work.
You are wrong
America has the worst gang violence by western standards because of failed social policies. Not its policing, which is not helping for sure admittedly.
Sweden has the some of the worst gang violence in Northern Europe now, yet has excellent social policies. Which aren't exactly shrinking? So why is the gang violence getting worse?
Because there is money to be made. And officer banan is not equipped to deal with someone from either a multi national crime family, or a middle eastern militia using sweden as a training ground.
Sometimes cops need a Damm pansarvagn and if you disagree that's OK, I wish they didn't either.
America's has a lot of reasons contributing to their gang violence. We shouldn't need a stronger police force to deal with gang violence, americanized policing doesn't work. Compare recedivism rates, compare population incarcerated, compare length and conditions of incarcerations.
The money argument is separate and not at all what you are arguing for, if it was you'd be here talking about legalisation not extreme prejudicial policing.
We need early prevention measures, strong social safety nets creating a path to becoming a part of the community. And we need to remove money as an incentive.
What part of my post made you think we need "extreme prejudicial policing" lol wtf.
That definition would be cops murdering peeps in the street because he might be a drug dealer. Aka the phillipines death squads. Is the only example that comes to mind other than tribal execution militias.
Im am saying, swedish police need more "militirized" equipment. Mostly armored apcs, cause if you've ever been shot at, cops wanting one goes from being "oh my god cops dont need tanks" to "it only stops small arms fire?"
And more importantly they absolutley also need "military grade" (lol) surveillance equipment and training. The current gangs who are trying to solidify their control over the growing swedish drug and scam market, often have had their leadership professionally trained by various nation-states official military/defense apparatus.
It's a real problem, that's growing at an exponential rate.
And ofc we need early prevention measures!? I specifically mentioned in my first post that the US has both bad policy and heavy handed policing. Sweden according to you has good policy and better policing?
Then why is the problem getting worse at an exponential rate?
Oh man you called for American policing and hen said it is heavy handed, you don't know what you want you just know the viewpoint you want to hold and to convince others to have without having the knowledge to get people to share that view point.
I have no interest in having a discussion with someone calling for militarised policing ie American style law enforcement.
Yeah, I want heavy handed policing regarding organized crime in Sweden.
Wtf about that is hard to understand?
Then why say all that lol?
Because the undeserving wealthy keep fucking things up.
Very impressive answer Mr "jag har inga argument förutom svärord"
Typical immigrant, not wanting to speak the native language.
Wow, a new commentator with nothing to add! Except name calling. Color me suprised!
Very constructive! You are truly great at communicating and debating with all those one line insults spread over different comments!
You are right