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Are attention spans actually shortening?
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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
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Asklemmy
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Nothing has changed
I don't believe anything has changed neurologically or psychologally in the last decades.
There have always been people who are more susceptible to consume "trashy" (provoking, easy to consume) media.
Once it was low-quality newspapers (a german band once refered to them as "fear, hate, tits and the weather forecast", which fits really well!), then it was trash TV, then mobile games, and now TikTok and stuff. Some people are just attracted to flashy stuff and can't get enough dopamine.
It's just that the latter example is very new, and everything new is automatically bad, no matter what.
There have always been young people who read books, create art, video game, listen or create music, have hobbies, and so on.
BUT, something has changed:
One word: attention economy. Capitalism realized, that especially in combination with ads, you can create A LOT of money by making easy to consume content.
If a platform uses dark patterns (emotional or funny content, reinforcement, short content instead of longer stuff, flashy stuff, likes, endless scrolling, keeping you as long as possible in the app, etc.), it makes a lot more money with it's users.
Years of algorithms perfectionized manipulating you and your attention span with supernatural stimuli (as mentioned above).
What to do with those informations?
Notice, how boring Lemmy, RSS-feeds, and stuff like that are?
After checking my posts for this day, I'm done and do something different, like cleaning the kitchen. Now, I'm on the toilet and don't have anything else to do, and I have fun answering you :)
That's how our devices should work. I don't wanna be a slave, I want to own my device, and not the other way around.
Tbh, I'm grateful Reddit went downhill. A year ago I could never imagine nuking my account.
I spent my whole teenage and now adult years (15 - now) on that shithole, was super addicted and couldn't spend 2 minutes without checking my phone, even in meetings, dates, and so on. It was just as bad as vaping for me. I knew, that it was slowly killing every brain cell, but "loved" it too much.
Thanks, u/spez ❤️ You killed Reddit for me and made my new "Reddit" (-> Lemmy, but with the same app) THAT boring for me I bought an e-reader now to read books instead😂
Yes I think you're right. People haven't changed, but the environment has changed - it's continually getting better at manipulating us.
Lemmy does have a limited amount of content, but what it does have seems to be of higher quality. Which is perfect! We don't need constant, cheap content.
I don't think Lemmy has higher quality content, but it has less content which makes you interact with it to get more of your social media fix. I've seen this post a couple times passing by, and I've just come back to look through the comments because there isn't anything new to see.
I would say higher quality content in that the comments are pertinent and not just jokes. Sometimes I'd spend a couple of minutes reading nonsense on Reddit before realizing, then I'd try to scroll way down for a fresh comment thread, then just give up on the post
I wouldn't agree with "better content" per se.
There's just as much "spam" (links to articles, low effort posts, etc.) as everywhere else. At the same time, the content is waaaay better.
Karma
The fact that you don't have to keep your karma in mind here let's you speak more freely.
If I would say "Pineapple on pizza is disgusting", I would have been downvoted to oblivion on Reddit. Here, they just ignore it, OR, don't downvote and tell me why I might be wrong.
Back to Reddit: That, in fact, would give me two options:
I always chose 1... Here, I don't care. And this mindset has lead to many great, mind opening discussions.
Even on subs like r/Changemyview or r/Unpopularopinion this culture didn't exist. No opinion was unpopular, merely "weird" (like "I like my socks wet" and stuff). Every "unpopular" opinion was popular on Reddit. And elsewhere, everything was a fight.
On this site, disagreeing is only for useful discussions I had/ read too. It's almost like an "anti-echochamber", and I love it! I love my opinions being challenged.
One more result of that is that the upvote/ downvote function went from "I agree/ I find that funny" or "This is against the subs opinion" to "This comment is worth reading for others and adds value. OP put work into it". WHICH IT SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE BEEN! This button isn't for disagreeing, it's for FILTERING out trash!
Algorithm
Also, there's no algorithm. On many other social media, post that make you laugh (-> mostly dumb stuff or reposts) or promote strong emotions (mostly aggression and tribalism) got promoted.
Here, it's somehow totally random. There's so much "boring" stuff on my trending page. But, I've discovered many cool niche subs here I wouldn't have otherwise. I didn't know so many people were into collecting space rocks and model trains for example 😁
E.g., my own gourmet-mushroom-growing-community got super many views and comments from people who've never heart of that before. That was unbelievable!
On the other hand, there's sooo much useless information, some opt-in filtering/ algorithm wouldn't be bad tbh. But many say that about account karma too, which is a way smaller feature, and that has repercussions too (see above). Something like an algorithm would be HUGE, but also maybe hugely bad for this site?
Idk, tell me! Be controversial! 😁
Yes the karma system here is way better! It definitely reduces the hive mind mentality.
I don't think we need any kind of algorithm though. That would only serve to make the popular stuff more popular and the niche stuff gets buried. Maybe if I could personally filter out communities that I'm not interested in?
Sure, but we have to make sure we communicate what the up-/downvote function actually is for. Many Reddit-refugees would otherwise just keep it as a "I agree"-button, and nothing would change for the better.
I agree with the sentence before, but I don't think filtering out everything you're uninterested in is remotely possible. Yes, you can filter out some specific communities you dislike, like all those Linux-subs, if you find them annoying. (OH, btw.: That was a comment in one of their/ our memes, and when one guy, coming from outside the sub, complained this stuff is constantly on his trending page, someone suggested "We're only 3 popular subs. Just blacklist us and you'll never hear from us again" it really resonated with me!)
Alternative?
I personally would rather enjoy a "promote" than "bury" function, something like a "GigaUpvote™" for posts you wish others to see too. Market the up- and downvote button as a quality filter, especially for comments, and if a post gets a certain ratio of up- and downvotes, comments and promotions, it will appear on the "popular"-tab.
Just as an additional function, IF YOU WANT. Keep the "old" spirit for those who prefer it, and suggest it for newcomers to find new content. And make it easy to toggle off for social media junkies like myself.
Your concerns about the need for an algorithm is correct.
But, instead of "personalized content", users should be able to make their own algorithm, with subscription and filter lists. I use uBlock Origin to block content you named as 'tribalist' (good take!).
But maybe I'm more sensitive. I don't find Lemmy boring, I can lurk here for hours. So I also blocked the 'prev/next' buttons just to stay on the first page (I'm an eccentric person).
Good article.
Not sure it is higher. Last week a cop was ambushed and murdered and of the 50 plus comments, every single one of them were praising the murder. I see that kind of mentality far more here.
Getting off reddit was one of the best things I've done for myself in years. I'm still fairly active on lemmy thanks to having a lot of free time at work but I've also been reading and making an earnest effort to enrich my mind again. Feelsgoodman
Same here. I have nothing of value to add.
What changes did you notice in your thought patterns when you withdrew from Reddit?
What books are you into and would recommend? Is there a community here?
I noticed that I take a lot more care and attention on my posting on lemmy in general. The conversation can be much richer than it is on Reddit and I feel that it's worth my time to sometimes write several paragraphs, cite sources and really dig into a topic. Be it star trek lore, political theory, or the weather. It's nice to have a space where thoughts can be challenged and discussed without it devolving into a shit slinging competition. I also don't find myself on lemmy much when I'm not at work which has led to me being more present in my home life I've been able to get more done around the house. I have terrible ADHD and it came as a surprise how much easier it's been, it's still difficult but it's better. I find I've just slowed down a bit and been more attentive overall. I won't attribute that wholesale to reddit as I've been making other lifestyle changes lately but being online too much was certainly an issue and it's made those other changes easier by virtue of having more time.
I'm on a big political theory bend right now as far as reading goes. I've read the conquest of bread, mutual aid, the state and revolution, bullshit jobs, some of capital (it's boring as fuck lol), the dawn of everything, some short writings from Malatesta, and a few others I'm blanking on right now. I'm also working my way through the Lord of the rings as well. I plan on revisiting some old favorites down the line too.
As for recommendations, I can't praise The Dawn of Everything enough. I lumped it in with politics earlier but it's really not (in the traditional sense). It's co-written by anthropologist David Graeber and archaeologist David Wengrow. In the book they attempt to go through the historical, anthropological, and archeological record to construct a grand narrative for the development of human society. They offer some very compelling evidence against the old myths of the noble savage or primitive barbarian that have been the dominant theories of human social development since the late enlightenment. It's truly eye-opening and fascinating. Also, if you haven't read the Lord of the Rings before, do yourself a favor and give it a go, you won't regret it.
There are a few book communities here, but I'm blanking on which instances they're on at the moment. I'll have to go through my subscribed pages and come back to link them
Yep, same. I’ve also spent A LOT of time in this quarter just creating content and answering comments. But, none of it felt like wasted energy and I don’t regret anything. I was able to strengthen my created community, help others in topics I’m interested in, and so on…
Again, same. Medication and meditation helped a lot making me more mentally balanced and being able to read a book or doing hard mental work.
Also, when I let my thoughts drift, I think about all those great interactions I’ve had this day and not how shitty everything is in general, like it has been on Reddit. That really took a strain on my wellbeing, and I reduced my usage of it long before taking the plunge and switching to Lemmy.
I “really” started reading not a long time ago. That was just something I was never able to due to said untreated ADHD, but now, I can, AND I LOVE IT!
I just started reading the Witcher books after playing through The Witcher 3. Even though I played it for 400 hours “without break”, it really hurt when it ended, and I wanted more from this immersive, disgusting, magic, beautifully crafted world. Those books (I’m into 2/6 now) are way better than I could have ever imagined and really help me break out of all this RL shit. Those books also demonstrate again how capitalism, Hollywood and Netflix transform a piece of european culture (which TW is based on) and extremely interesting characters into something as shallow and americanized as the series on Netflix. Different topic…
On the more “nerdy” side, I’m currently reading “Running Mycelium” from Paul Stamets right now. It’s about how mushrooms could save the world, for example by filtering out toxic waste or plastic from the environment, giving us a sustainable building solution, new medicinal horizons (e.g. antibiotics), and so on.
Yeah, otherwise, I have a lot of books in my reading list and already downloaded.
I will definately take a look into your recommendation, that sounds like a possibility for me to be fun at the next party 🙃 Text
I dropped reading for most of my adult life, I had a hard time with it as a child too before I got diagnosed but my symptoms were a lot less severe then too so it was still easier than it currently is. Im poor and don't have health insurance so I'm unmedicated which IS NOT fun lol. But I'm making it (barely) work.
The witcher is a series I've wanted to get into for a while, glad to hear the books are as great as they sound! The games are fantastic so I'm sure the source material only gets better. Mycology is fascinating topic as well. I'm an amateur grower and forager when I can bother to get off my ass. It's a pretty dope subject and an even doper hobby if you're in the market for one.
If you want a fun YouTube recommendation, Crime pays but botany doesn't is a good channel. He's an Italian from Chicago with a lot of passion for ecology and reducing mans influence on nature. Most of his videos are just him walking around the woods and pointing out cool plants lol. But he has this guy on his videos on a semi-regular basis, Adam Rockefeller. His specialty is on psylocibin mushrooms of all varieties and there's some really enlightenimg info on them in those videos. From field identification and testing to genomic sequencing and plenty of other stuff. The guys a savant. He doesn't seem to have a large independent presence online but it's always a pleasant surprise when he shows up. I have a suspicion you would enjoy it
This is exactly why I love Lemmy. I noticed it within hours of quitting reddit. The sheer volume of content on Reddit, plus the algorithms, kept my attention for hours. Lemmy just isn't that big and probably 60% of the content I see is in swedish, gerrman, or dutch, which I can't read, so I spend like 15 or 20 minutes max here and then go do something else.
I can relate so much, but instead of only Reddit stealing my time it's a bunch of other things as well. Mostly gaming and random series.
But yeah I remember going thru 8th grade by scrolling reddit all day, school was boring af. Now I only use Lemmy on the bus (rn) or checking for replies before I go to sleep.
I learned very much from yall, and I'm almost convinced reading is worth it, idk what to start reading tho.. Maybe a future tale
If you like fantasy, Redwall is always a fun read. It might be a bit of an easy read though.
are you trying to scare me of with "easy read"? I might read it, idk, as I said I'm very on the edge..
But don't mind my personal shit, thanks for the recommedation!
I just meant that it could be considered more of a children's fantasy book in some cases. I hope you do at least read the first book, it's good
well alr, saved this with all the others that I know nothing about.
RSS feeds have made my attention worse. It almost becomes a chore to get my bearded to zero content unread. I also shove my YouTube subs and podcasts in there though.
Yes and no. I think it makes sense when you separate it a bit more.
Instead if throwing everything in one list, create profiles/ categories/ folders/ whatever.
I use it mainly for the public state media in my country. Those "media hubs" are a horrible UX (despite being insanely expensive!) and to fix that I add some of their shows into my RSS, so it works similar to the YouTube subscription box, because somehow german media people are still behind 30 years... In that way I fix that shit for myself because they can't...
I don't use it for example for news or YouTube, since both have a timeline already built in.
I didn't buy an e-reader I just installed Cool Reader which is free. But the result is the same. I probably read five books a month now where before it was probably less than one a year.
I really recommend trying an e-reader in your local shop or borrowing one from a friend if you can.
I've read books on my phone for about a year now, but the "feeling" isn't right there, and I somehow get distracted a bit.
I'm really a fan of "a device should do one thing, and that really good". I bought a camera, a reader, and so on because of that. My software habits are the same. I have dozens of simple apps on my phone and PC, and all of them serve one single purpose. Look up the UNIX-principle if you're interested in more. (Sorry, this site is full of Linux-circlejerk 🙃)
Separating everything really also separates your mind, giving you peace.
It's minimalist and maximalist at the same time.
I'm sort of on the same wavelength. You can get a pretty powerful phone for cheap if you don't care about camera quality. I mostly only take pictures when people ask me to so I don't care about camera quality. But if you do your research there are cheap Android phones with some of the latest snapdragon processors or whatever for cheap. Latest Samsung and iphone cost what they do because of the camera mostly. I don't need a camera so I get cheap phones with strong hardware and basic cameras. Currently using a Motorola.
I will look into getting an e-reader though. Plan was always to spend less time on my phone. Photography doesn't interest me. I've tried to get into it because hot girls are into it but I can't even fake it.
Then don't chase something you don't enjoy! If you want to meet new people, be enthusiastic and have fun in what you're doing right now, whatever it is. When I've learnt something in the last few years, then it is to have fun and enjoy yourself. Others will notice and will be interested into you.
You're into books? Get a library card and ask the handsome lady next to you out. You enjoy collecting postcards? Weird, but interesting! Will be a great conversation starter. You get my point?
I do but talking to girls is how you get cooties.
I honestly wouldn't buy a "cheap" phone in your place to be honest. They don't last as long. Maybe take a look into Fairphone, or Google Pixel devices. Both can run many CustomROMs (if you're into that), extending the life span and making it more private. I'm a fan of the Fairphone, since you can repair it yourself and it has (I believe) 10 years of software support ootb
Mine is completely unlocked and has no bloatware. I've had it for six years and it's still going. As I said, do your research before getting a phone. Look at what hardware is in it etc. Only thing it doesn't have is a fancy camera.
I know the song you're talking about! :D
Love the BILD reference