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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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Why do they have to burn fossil fuels? That's fucking stupid
Im torn between giving an upvote for asking a question or giving a downvote for your following sentence given the answer was in the comment you were replying to.
Also, if you ask a question wouldn’t it be wise to wait for the answer before also passing judgement on something.
“Why is this like this? That’s fucking dumb.” Doesn’t quite work does it? How can it be dumb if you don’t know how it works. Why should we trust your assessment on its dumbness if you’ve already conceded you don’t know.
They’re not asking how, they’re asking why. And something can absolutely appear as dumb without you knowing why something is one way or another.
It might not be dumb, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t look dumb. Besides that’s entirely subjective.
You're such a removed for typing up 3 paragraphs to something that took me 3 seconds to type up in a passing thought ngl
And not even answering the question
If you want an answer to your question, spend your 3 seconds typing it into a search engine or AI.
No need, someone helpful actually explained it nicely without being a fedora tipping idiot
Base load generators cant adjust their output quickly enough to match the daily demand curve. Your options are to keep them online at a fixed level 24/7, or cut them entirely. If you don't have enough renewable production to meet overnight demand, you have to meet that demand with base load generators, which means you have to keep those generators online. If you have to keep them online, and wind is providing more power than is being demanded, you have to cut the wind production to match demand.
To get those (usually coal-fired) generators offline, you need to drop your overnight consumption, add storage, switch to non-fossil baseload generators (nuclear), use less efficient "peaker" plants (usually gas turbine generators fired by natural gas or oil), or some combination thereof.
You're right, it is "fucking stupid", but it is due to the functional limitations of the equipment they currently have available. With those limitations, the best option is to export your excess wind production to someone who needs it, and improve your own grid to reduce reliance on fossil fuels.
Makes more sense now 👌
Renewables suffer from intermittency .. production depends on whether the wind is blowing or the sun is shining .. and they can't be ramped up quickly to cope with increased demand. So you need a baseline source to take care of that and the only options we have are fossil fuel or nuclear.
Ireland outlawed nuclear in 1999. Not a NATO member quite famously too
Nuclear can't be ramped up quickly either, as you said it's the stable baseline
I'm guessing that it can be ramped up ahead of time, the grid will know when peak demands are during the day and during special events.
Baseload generation can be ramped up or down, yes. But, can't be ramped up or down fast enough to meet variations in daily demand. You can't slow it down fast enough in the evening to follow the drop off as everyone goes to bed. You can't speed it up fast enough in the morning as everyone wakes up and gets to work.
You have to keep it running at a nearly constant output level.
Generators that can be ramped up and down fast enough to match the demand curve are known as "peaker plants". Baseload plants are extremely efficient; peakers are much less efficient. Baseload plants use a few, giant steam turbines. Peakers typically use a large number of small, gas turbines, or even reciprocating engines.
Actually, they just can't be ramped, neither fast nor slow. What is done is just wasting part of the (heat)-energy that is produced. If you want to utilize NPPs you need storage, just like with renewables but more expensive to build.
You need some way of matching generation and consumption. "Peaker plants" and "Storage" are the typical answers, but they are not the only ones available.
We currently operate primarily on a "supply shaping" model, where we assume consumers are going to use whatever they want, whenever they want, and we adjust our production to match. They will pay a fixed price per kWh, without regard to the effects of their load on the grid. Responsibility for matching is entirely on the supplier.
We could shift our focus toward a "demand shaping" model, where we incentivize some of our (large, industrial) customers to go offline during peak hours, or switch to off-peak schedules to raise the base load.
You can’t force the wind to blow or the sun to shine. Hydroelectric is different.
It is in place because using entirely renewable power means changes have to be made to the country's electricity grid.