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[-] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I am eager to see how all of this plays out.

We effectively have three parties now. There's the Democrats, the Republicans, and the MAGA extremists. The problem is that the MAGA extremists are simultaneously a much smaller group than either of the two major parties while also being juuuuuust large enough to make sure that neither one of the other two parties actually have a controlling majority.

Somewhat ironically, our system actually was designed to handle this. The entire system was designed so everybody involved would negotiate, compromise, and elect one speaker that everybody can at least agree with. Theoretically, we should be able to handle this without issue. The problem is that our system was barely able to handle a two-party system where both sides dig in their heels, double down, and view any concession at all as a "loss" rather than compromise and negotiate, because at least one side could use its majority to push something through one way or another.

But now we effectively have a three party system. Our system was not designed to handle a situation where three parties refuse to negotiate or compromise over virtually anything, but none have enough of a majority to push anything through. Especially when one of the three sides has openly stated their intent to just watch the whole thing burn.

One of three things is going to have to happen.

  1. The MAGA wing eventually backs down. IMO, doing this would effectively kill whatever influence they have even in their own party as backing down would make this entire ordeal a bigger waste of time than it already is. This would probably lead to the return of Kevin McCarthy as speaker with MTG's hand crammed right up his ass, but only this time even more emboldened as he would no longer have to worry about the deals he made to get the speaker's gavel in the first place.

  2. Moderate Republicans are going to have to work with Democrats to get Democrat support for a moderate Republican speaker. However, doing so is guaranteed to come with a whole new list of heavy concessions that would be all but politically suicidal for a Republican to accept. This would also make it nigh-impossible to govern as the Speaker would have the impossible task of balancing the wants of his own party with whatever deal he'd be forced to make with Democrats in order to get the position. (This idea would also be untenable to Democrats, as they'd have no power to enforce whatever agreement they would make once the new speaker is installed, and there would be nothing stopping a new speaker from just telling Democrats where they can shove their agreement.)

  3. Moderate Republicans double-down on their refusal to work with Democrats and instead begrudgingly accept a MAGA-endorsed candidate on MAGA terms just so someone gets the gavel. This would effectively put us right back where we started, with either Kevin McCarthy as speaker or someone worse than Kevin McCarthy, and just like he was, they'd have the Sword of MAGA swinging over their heads forcing him to do their bidding whether he wants to or not. This would significantly embolden the MAGA party, as they would be able to say "You will do what we say or we will oust you just like we did McCarthy". People like MTG would become exponentially more insufferable than they already are with that kind of power in their hands.

Get the popcorn ready. This is gonna be one hell of a ride.

[-] Beetschnapps@lemmy.world 74 points 1 year ago

Both sides didn’t dig their heels in and refuse to compromise. One side compromised plenty to the annoyance of their voters (dems giving concessions to republicans)

The other side never compromised, then said “fuck you”, claimed dems are at fault, stormed the capitol and acted like those “maga extremists” were the normal ones.

This isn’t a both sides thing when one side is fucking committing insurrection while shutting down the gov, that’s not on democrats.

[-] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

I didn't say Democrats were wrong for refusing to compromise in this situation. If I were a member of the House, I'd sit back and watch them eat themselves too.

Both sides are refusing to compromise. Just for completely different reasons. Democrats are refusing to compromise because the GOP policies are untenable, they repeatedly go back on their word, and it's not their responsibility to save the GOP from themselves (again). Republicans are refusing to compromise because they have the collective mentality of a 7 year old, their own (now former) speaker just went on record yesterday saying that they know they're supposed to compromise but just don't want to because they're the majority party and fuck you that's why.

My statement about neither side being willing to compromise wasn't a "both sides" attack. It was merely an acknowledgement of the current situation. The reasons why they refuse to compromise are what separates the two sides.

[-] Eccitaze@yiffit.net 14 points 1 year ago

Thank you. It's critically important to recognize that each party does do similar things sometimes, but it's also crucial to recognize the difference in motivation behind those similar actions, and to acknowledge that the motivation is sometimes just as important as the action that results from the motivation.

[-] hh93@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

It's just a fundamentally flawed system since it's always easier to campaign AGAINST something instead of FOR something since the moment you make a constructive offer you're making yourself attachable while being destructive works without being open for attacks of any kind

Normally this can be resolved by there being too many parties and too many different viewpoints to oppose all of them without being crazy - but with just two parties it gets too easy to see every of those two as a single entity as and just oppose whatever they are doing

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this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
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