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this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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Been a lot of whitewashing lately of people like Feinstein, Biden and Pelosi. And it seems like you can't even criticize them or you get called a Trumper.
Biden is not even in the same league of asshattery as Pelosi and Feinstein, despite a long career and being in the Executive twice. I’ll never forget Pelosi talking down to a high school student who asked her a question about economic equity—I don’t remember the kid’s question, but her response is seared into my brain. She got pissy and said “America is a capitalist country” like capitalism was handed down from god on high or enshrined in the Constitution. It was contemptuously delivered, to a degree as bad as I once heard Rick Santorum speak to a student who asked him about LGBTQ rights.
Feinstein was a regressive in a lot of ways, perhaps she escaped being labeled a DINO because her votes were more important than her sometimes asinine rhetoric.
Here's the clip: https://youtu.be/MR65ZhO6LGA
Ah, thanks... the questioner wasn't a high school student, but appears to be in their 20s. Pelosi's response is less flagrantly contemptuous than I remember, but revealed her to be a dyed-in-the-wool corporatist, which was equally upsetting and has colored my perception of her ever since. Feinstein basically wanted to publicly flay Snowden and took such an extreme view of state secrets (among other things), and I was always curious about the politics that led her to get reelected term after term.
What economic system would you recommend beyond capitalism? Are there any large countries that have successfully implemented this?
For economic systems, it seems like just about every country mixes capitalism and socialism, and some of those economies lean more towards one rather than the other.
Perhaps a better discussion would be over what the best mixture is rather than the simple: "Capitalism/Socialism is bad" that people seem to argue so much over.
Here you go...
Why It's So Hard To Imagine Life After Capitalism
https://youtu.be/PaASqPnpq5Y
I was hoping for an actual discussion rather than a link to a 20 min video like that.
That 20 min video was all "capitalism is bad" and only for a few seconds near the end where he proposes "Communist Realism" without even attempting to explain what it is or compare any sort of pros and cons.
So to summarize the video for anyone else who doesn't want to waste their time (in the context of the questions I proposed):
Video: "Communist Realism, buy my book"
Video: "No, they weren't given a chance because capitalist countries overthrew them in one way or another."
The video didn't really address this other than:
Video: "Capitalism bad, people are stuck thinking there's nothing else"...
You'll find, historically, Dems question themselves a lot more on average. As "Dems need to fall in love" with the party plan, they end up asking way more questions than the "GoPniks need to fall in line" bunch.
So, you may easily decide that you DON'T get called a trumper just by asking questions. It's in the nature to review and discuss things.
Being called a Trumper for criticising a democrat is no different than Christians who say you're a devil worshiper if you don't worship the Christian god. Just because I criticize a democrat, doesn't mean I'm a republican. It's not a knife edge. Someone like Pelosi is not anywhere near leftist enough for me, but if I criticize her for that, I'm somehow a Trump supporter?? How does that make sense?
Do you really get push back on that? Most of the Democrats are corrupt. I think Biden is relatively cut and dry but Pelosi is a crook.
“DoN’t BoTh SiDeS! FaLsE eQuIvAlEnCe.
Nobody is talking about the other side, that's exactly my point. I'm talking about this side, forget the GOP and their idiocy, worry about the people you want in power, not those other idiots. Why is it that every criticism of the party I vote for, means in somehow on the side of republicans? Jesus fuck, people like Pelosi will be in power till they die because of people like you, who clearly want no change since you're not even allowing criticism.
I think you missed Maeve's sarcasm, which was supposed to be obvious from the up- and down-casing of the letters in her words. When someone writes in that way deliberately, they're making fun of people who would write the same sentence with a straight face.
/cue dramatic music
I'm a leftist and get called a Trumper all the time for criticizing Dems to be better.
Talking shit about Biden and telling everyone to vote for a third party instead is not "criticizing Dems to be better," it's literally how you would put Trump back in the White House
I'm not seeing anyone in this thread telling anyone to vote third party.
When it comes down to voting for Biden or whatever racist shitbag the GOP trots out, I'm going to vote for Biden. But don't tell me I'm not allowed to criticize him or the party. Acting like a political party is above criticism comes off as fascist.
And before you get on to me about only criticizing Democrats, I think we can all agree that Republicans are worse, but if we aren't allowed to call out Dems on shit, then we truly don't have a democracy anymore.
I get the impulse that talking shit about a political candidate is turning people off of voting or voting for the realistic candidate, but I would argue that doing shit like keeping old politicians in office does a lot more to turn people off of voting. If we want people to vote, then they need to be inspired by a candidate and feel good about voting. And of course they don't feel inspired when they hear criticisms about both parties, but clearly just telling people that they have to vote for someone to keep someone like Trump from office only seems to work for reelection, but it didn't stop him from getting in office in the first place. I'm pretty confident that Trump won't be president again, I'm not so confident about the next guy like him.
I’m not confident he won’t win against the crappy candidates dnc keeps trotting out, andi doubt I’ll vote either party, but thank you for voicing the rest of my thoughts about it so well.
I took a brief look at the post history of the person I was responding to, that is what my comment was based on. Never anywhere did I suggest you shouldn't criticize Democrats, of course all our elected leaders should be scrutinized.
And of course Feinstein should have retired years ago, just like Ginsburg should've retired while Obama was president.
What I was arguing against is that guy"s "Biden is all bad, vote Green party" perspective, which only helps elect a Republican
You're getting downvoted but it's what's happening here. The GOP is not even an option in terms of who to vote for, so I only focus on Democrats and how to fix their issues. But no, suddenly now it's a sin to point out any issues within your own party. It's toe the line, or get called a Trumper.
I think Pelosi, Biden and the older generation is way too conservative and centrist, I want a more socially progressive democratic party that will push forward a more leftist agenda, led by younger, more left leaning Democrats, why is that a "Trumper" view?? Why am I not allowed to call out the people on the side I'm on?
I want a progressive agenda but how do such ideas gain traction when the opposition messaging does such a good job at mocking progressives that the mockers' view of the agenda takes precedence over the actual agenda? Sometimes I feel like the progressive agenda comes preloaded with poison pills that are intended to give red meat to the opposition, aka is designed to fail.
Who is calling you a Trumper? You keep saying that, but I haven't seen that anywhere here
You say anything negative about dems and they come out in full force calling you a red hat.
Gtfo with that. There's plenty of legitimate shit talking about democrats. Just don't be a "both sides" asshole or a hexbear goon.
My reddit and lemmy history strongly disagrees with you. Any criticism of dems is met with downvotes. Ill also argue that excusing shitty behavior from those on the left because "they're not as bad as republicans" is lesser of two evils bullshit that has enabled us to continue slipping further and further in the wrong direction, as a whole.
Yeah, my reddit and lemmy history strongly disagree with you too, chachi. I've literally never been called out for criticizing democrats. But then again I don't engage in weak "both sides" bullshit like you do.
And it's funny how you initially said criticizing democrats gets you called a maga bootlicker, but now you say it's just "downvotes".
Comments and downvotes, now an exclusive response to comments online!
What are you trying to say? Yes, on a platform like Reddit or Lemmy, your options to respond are literally exclusive to commenting and/or voting.
Nice dodge, btw. You don't have to respond to the crux of my response if you focus on a lesser point.
My point was you make it out as if comments and downvotes are exclusive. As if downvoting doesn't send a message in itself.
The crux of your response? Saying that your personal online experience has been different than mine and somehow invalidates it? Was it really worth addressing? Maybe pay more attention to the comments you read through? You having not experienced it means nothing to those that have
Pretty sure the whole point of them sharing a personal anecdote wasn't to invalidate yours so much as to point out that your experience is, in fact, anecdotal and therefore not concrete enough of a justification to make the blanket statement of "you can't criticize Dems on left-leaning social media" (paraphrased).
It's certainly your lived experience, but to generalize entire platforms based on it is asinine. Need more data to make a statement like that and not be challenged.
I understand where you're coming from, but myself making a statement that I have experienced something first hand and witnessed others experience such responses to criticism means a lot more than someone saying they have never. It's like someone saying I was bullied in high-school to then have others say I was never bullied in school, bullies don't exist. It's an irrelevant statement and is only trying to dismiss one's experiences.
Apologies for the late reply, I guess I didn't have notifications set up correctly.
I think I see the point you're making, but I don't think that it contradicts my point. Your analogy isn't quite applicable here because no one is saying vocal-toxic-leftists don't exist, we're saying that just because you have seen vocal-toxic-leftists you can't defensibly generalize large groups with such little evidence.
It's early and I haven't had coffee, so I apologize again if what I said isn't so clear.
The author of this article is almost certainly a democrat. And if you mention senile politicians without mentioning Trump, you are invariably a Trumper.
I mean when we're all on the same side, must I add the most obvious ones? I'm not talking about the GOP and Trump, they're far gone off the crazy cliff, they're not saveable. I'm worried about the politicians I want to vote for, and point out the ones that make me angry and need a kick in the ass within the party I vote for.
I consider myself lib center and I'm surprised at how left Lemmy seems to be. I mostly filter out anything political now
People really don't know what "left" is suppose to mean. Socialism is suppose to be a real political position, not a slur. What is consider liberal these days is really right-wing politics.
Yes.
You're being downvoted, but you're right. Definitely far left here, on average. My theory is that the people who stuck around after the reddit boycott tend to be more "woke", to use a dumbass term.
Left in USA is right in the real world.
As much as I like the sentiment, it really isn't true. There's way too many theocratic fascists, liberal stooges that sell out their country for power, and combinations of the two in control of most of the world. There are a number of European countries where this is the case, but Europe isn't the world. Outside of some counties in the global south that have elected socialists through democratic means (only to be ousted by the right), genuine leftist governments get destroyed or coopted most of the time.
Especially with regards to social issues like LGBTQ rights and discrimination of ethnic minorities, the USA is farther along in the conversation than even some of those European countries.
Left in the USA is constrained by the fact that the status quo is extremely right wing, so things like healthcare reforms and limits on corporations that progressives advocate are right wing in relation to all possible positions. However, policies as far right as the GOP's are common globally.
You're absolutely right about that. The leftist paradise of the Netherlands (who I have praised elsewhere) is (was?) a great example of this. You'll have dance clubs that will let white folks in, but if a Moroccan shows up they suddenly ask for them to show their membership card, a card that, of course, can't be purchased then and there.
On the other hand, most Euro countries have cops that aren't interested in playing no-strings attached murderball, unlike our cops.