910
UBI Cash Payments Reduced Homelessness, Increased Employment in Denver
(www.businessinsider.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
910 points (97.1% liked)
World News
32353 readers
248 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Remember that politics can be changed with votes. Tax them to finance change.
It's difficult, but blaming billionaires takes away our agency.
If we could change politics by voting, we wouldn't be allowed to vote.
We're not stretched thin to finance these changes. Taxes aren't holding us back. This is what those with true power in society and their cronies say to not do anything. This is the whole point.
No one is only blaming "billionaires." This is you patronizing them, portraying yourself as a genius and the person you're responding to as too naive and stupid to understand how life really works.
And no, we don't have agency. We have a deluded sense of agency where we think we can vote and change the system from within.
There are levels. Voters don't have agency. But if voters would coordinate they would have agency.
The difference is believing in agency.
I am aware how stupid I sound. But how else can I phrase it that there needs to be a believe in change to create change? Right now I just hope that readers ignore the stupid part.
What you're saying can happen has literally never happened in human history though, right?
There's a reason why the nonviolent revolution Wikipedia article is essentially empty, right?
(I'm not downvoting you BTW, I upvoted.)
Thanks for the upvote.
There hasn't been internet for most of history, nor global warming, nor automation.
The joke is that people don't want a fair revolution because the situation will be worse at first if resources are shared globally. People don't want agency because they would be responsible for all problems.
I love what you said about believing in agency: knowing what power is ultimately in our hands would change the world for the better.
Thank you. Judging by the downvotes and objections, people deeply don't believe it. I had expected some technical issues that prevent UBI but reading those replies makes me sad.
This is Lemmy. People on Reddit will feel even more disenfranchised. But it could be the other way round because Marxism states that capitalist democracy doesn't work and that a revolution is needed.
I don't like this logic because it's predicated on an nondescript "they" with unlimited shadowy power. It leads to unhelpful conspiratorial thinking bordering on the magical. It obfuscates the real problems we face, and if we don't understand them, even a violent revolution to defeat it would eventually replicate the system we destroyed because we didn't understand how it came to be in the first place.
The reason it's hard to change the system is because the system is self-reinforcing through individuals acting in their own immediate best interests and not acting as a class, not because "they wouldn't let you change it, they'd just [rig the elections/not let you vote/kill you with a space laser]". But that's a complex answer, and it's much easier to believe in the latter and call it a day.
Holy shit, what an anti-Semitic piece of shit you are. Absolutely classless.
It doesn't matter that you think this sort of "logic" leads to conspiratorial thinking. There is a "they" and it's the ruling class. The ruling class, and its defenders, is made up of a lot of people and institutions who create, dictate, and govern the systems that keep them and their power firmly in place. Sorry that society is a bit more complicated than you want it to be. Reality is a hard pill to bite sometimes for you racists.
And if you knew anything about anything, you'd know that democratically elected leaders are toppled by their ruling classes and/or outside forces (i.e. US) when something doesn't go in the interest of the ruling class. To think somehow the US is immune from this is absolutely delusional thinking. Not surprising you're into Western exceptionalism with your views on race.
And again, I just want to reiterate how much of a bottom barrel racist scum you are.
I have no idea who you are talking to. Did you respond to the right comment? None of this makes sense as a response to anything I just said.
It makes perfect sense. What are you confused about? Are you going to try to "it's just an OK hand symbol" your way out of this? What else would "space lasers" mean in the way you meant it?
My entire post was warning against gesturing towards a vague power controlling everything because it leads to conspiracism. One major example of that conspiracism is antisemitism. I have literally no idea how you can read my comment and come back thinking I'm arguing in favor of antisemitism. Yes, the space laser thing was a jab at the infamous "Jewish space laser" conspiracy, and I was explicitly saying avoid that kind of thinking.
The problem with our society isn't that there's a nonspecific ruling class directly dictating everything. There doesn't need to be. We proletariat as a class are fractured instead of united. There's no need to rig elections or prevent us from voting because we don't act as a threat against power in the first place. The system amorally chugs along unimpeded as we go about our individual lives instead of acting together. Our daily compliance is what sustains it, and the system is designed to punish noncompliance automatically.
The scary truth isn't that there's a puppetmaster pulling our strings, it's that there's nobody at the wheel at all.
The tail has been wagging the dog for quite some time now
It's not just a matter of reversing power.
Billionaires lead. Regular citizens would massively have to change their lives if they want to change that.
I agree the wealthy need to pay a lot more in tax than they currently do.
They also have disproportionate control over the electoral process in many countries, and most political parties are not even considering taxing them to the extent that they need to be taxed. Nor are most political parties challenging our capitalist society in any significant sense.
Voting is important, but don't expect voting alone to solve our problems.
No it does not. Sod off with that. Correctly identifying a major contributor to an issue does not take away agency.
What but voting should solve the problems? You won't stage a revolution.
Direct action.
How about direct action to make citizens vote in a coordinated way?
But you must have other direct actions in mind. Which ones?
Voting. Strikes. Mass protest. More, if ultimately required.
Why strikes and mass protests? Vote accordingly and let the law drive the change.
Because voting alone doesn't work, as evidenced by the fact that it hasn't worked over decades of us trying, you stupid wanker.
People have tried to fly for centuries. The nonexistance proofs nothing. It just indicates that it is not easy.
Voting doesn't work because voters are like internet users, they are a given. Citizens have to offer their votes like lobbyists offer money to have an influence.
Voting alone also doesn't work because the options provided and the specifics of the voting system are decided by people who have an incentive to rig them in their favour. You cannot vote for options that are not allowed.
Hence needing to vote, and do more outside of voting, rather than sheepishly just doing the same thing for decades while it fails over and over again.
I would like to believe in your approach but I don't believe in protests. That's transferring union tactics from companies to the state. It's valid in a monarchy but in a democracy, you can talk to other voters and have them support your cause. The citizens are the state.
Votes drive change. Believing in other means distracts from the real origin of power.
But votes have to be negotiated. Blindly voting for one's own team turns citizens into a product.
Okay, good luck being ignored and accomplishing nothing.
Good. Because those work.
Only if the democratic process accurately reflects the will of the people. And only if the rights of minorities are protected.
In many places, including the US and the UK, neither of those are true.
Votes are one of many "real" origins of power. To ignore the others is stupidity.
There are other origins of power but votes are special because they control the law.
Which protests are not ignored?
All origins of power will align when citizens coordinate their votes before an election.
It's a bit Leninistic. If voting is a race among teams, a state is created that stands atop the citizens.
If citizens debate before the election about what they want and coordinate their votes, then the state represents their will.
No votes do not control the law. They elect the government, who controls the law,
The government can be influenced by various means. Voting is but one of them.
Nobody cares if you do not like other methods, such as strikes and protests, they are still effective. And the owning class already uses other methods, such as lobbying and outright bribery, so to constrain oneself to methods that don't work is voluntary surrender.
Pretty much every civil rights and liberation movement around the world has been accomplished through a diversity of strategies, which almost always include protest.
Please pull your head out and observe reality.
One is in the past, the other is present.
I am arguing for using lobbying as citizens.